AIBU to expect nursery to wipe my sons bum at 4?

[reality1]

Son is 4 and just cannot get the whole wiping bum thing and panicks when his bum isnt properly cleaned.
He has said he cant have a poo at nursery because he cant wipe his bum so he waits until he is home.
I had a word with nursery and they said they are not allowed to they can only talk him through it.
The trouble is my son has quite an issue with this so instead of being talked through wiping his bum he will just hold it in.
He is only just 4 before i get flamed for wiping his bum this long and there are 3 year olds in his class as well AIBU

Here they start nursery the term after their 3rd birthday. They start reception the September after they turn four even if they turned four two days earlier. If you keep them out until they are five because you feel that only just four is too young to be expected to do a 6.5 hour day five days a week, and you start them at five, they go straight into year one, where they are expected to sit down, shut the fuck up and work.

Parents don't get to decide when they start at the beginning of their education - they either start at the beginning according to their birth date, or they miss the beginning of their education.

Yes different here trin.

Hi reality1. Not sure if you need to worry at all.
I have a large family and have both sides of the wiping of the bum capability!
One message I wish I had been given is this - I have a dyspraxic son, and the only long term indicator of this issue was his inability to deal with the wiping after a poo. A physical impossiblity without specialist intervention actually.
He is now well able to manage that task without help, but suffered for so long with our lack of understanding. So if your child has difficulties managing other ordinary tasks requiring higher co-ordination, then maybe take some time to consider whether or not there are other probs causing his difficulties.

not different

with us tey just get an extra year at the beginning of just playing away from mummy

when they are five they have to sit down shut up and work

some of them may have had 1 year and some may have had two years of 'playing' at prescool

I have read through this entire thread and have never laughed so much as at MrsGravy's posts. Top effort!

I have three DCs and we have managed to cover all levels of toileting - early, middle, late and missed a bit.

After much thought I have to say that it really doesnt matter. When did any of you, who have posted so vehemently on the subject of bottom wiping, become competent yourselves? If you dont know the answer then you can be confidant that it really doesnt matter.

Poor you, I can see you are worried about him making himself constipated to avoid doing a poo at nursery and whether that might become a continuing problem.

Can you try some kind of reward system for doing a poo at nursery or when out and attempting to wipe himself?

And get down to teaching him now to wipe bottom. I found it worked to explain to my DC that they are a big boy/girl now and need to learn this because they are so clever.

He prob wont do it brilliantly at the start so extra laundry (boys are definately the worst). And you might need the nappy cream out each evening to help his skin recover (with clean set of pants for bedtime) so he doesnt get sore as he learns properly.

Ah the joys of motherhood! "Well darling that/s very good, now keep wiping until the tissue is clean... no that's not clean.. thankyou for showing me so close to my face... and keep wiping.."

But will be so nice for him & for you once he gets it. And save more problems at school because that will be mortifying for him - schools don't cossett children the same way nurseries do. (And Summer born babies start school at just gone 4 years old). You cant change the nursery's rules and I suspect most preschools would also expect him to be self wiping at 4 for a non-disabled child.

YABU, doesn't matter what the 'shoulds' are, the fact is that they are not going to do it for him. He has found a solution, I don't like to poo anywhere but home either.

No chance I would be wiping visiting children's bottoms, if you are old enough for parent free playdates then you are old enough to wipe your arse.

He will figure it out, if you stop doing it for him.

Whereismumhiding has it spot on I think. Gently but firmly so he learns without panic. And it is not good for anyone to hold it in children or adults. It can lead to constipation so I wouldn't suggest that as a solution at all. I hope you figure it out, you've had some very harsh answers which haven't really been all that helpful .

I think he will figure it out once he knows that you are not going to do it for him. DCs know fine well that if they make enough fuss, Mum will cave in and do it for him. In a school or nursery the staff will have expectations that a 4 yr old can do it and will talk them through it.
It is hard work and parents need to work at the skills and not just take the easy way. This is why DCs turn up at school unable to use a knife and fork.
Thinking back to my own school days the toilets were not off the infant classroom and were not within shouting distance of the teacher, it was just assumed, rightly, that DCs went off and managed. In the same way we could all sit down and use a knife and fork. A teacher would help cut meat, as would a parent, but you were expected to hold both and know how to use them.
Some DCs are just used to a personal servant-you see them come out of school and immediately give everything to Mum to carry, some excuse when they are 4 yrs but not when they are 10 yrs. Mum just carries it!
My favourite saying has always been 'what did you last servant die of?'

Amazing and I'm afraid YABU. It never occurred to me to wipe my children's bottoms, it was part of potty training, sit, wee or poo, hand paper, they wiped. If it wasn't perfect no matter they had a bath at night time anyway. It was a complete non issue. .....until that is, ds had his first nursery playdate and I was informed that dsfriend was waiting for me to wipe. I looked into bathroom and there he was bending over touching his toes. It was a non issue "I just said here you are ds friend, here's some paper you had better wipe your bottom or you'll miss tea. Told his mother when she arrived and said something like - good job that's been sorted, it would have got a bit embarassing for the lad on his first day at work!

I honestly never imagined that a 4 year old could possibly needs its bottom wiped.

Obviously, those who so adamantly think that 4 year olds and even 3 year olds should be able to wipe their own bottoms, then you haven't read the OP properly.

The issue, as has been repeated a few times, is that the OP's son has an issue with cleanliness, he gets in a panic about it and gets very very upset.

It sounds like the nursery not only will have to manage bottom wiping but also a very upset child. Perhaps they are happier to comfort him than wipe his bottom, which seems very mean to me.

reality1 I hope that when you have another discussion with nursery that you will be able to find a way through this.

I am totally screwed with DS1 then as he is 3.4 and not potty trained yet. We tried for a month and he only indicated verbally that he wanted the potty six times. He can only pull his trousers up at the front, has trouble understanding the concept of reaching round the back and pulling the back of his trousers or pants up. He also can't take his own shoes off yet, as he also doesn't seem to understand the concept of pushing the back of his shoe off. There are also questions of autism as he has autistic traits. But, it is really hanging in the balance.

So it seems that if your child is on the cusp of it, then you get very short shrift.

Luckily we live in New Zealand now where they seem to be much more understanding and accommodating with such things, at preschool at least.

Also, people who are talking about the good old days where all children could proficiently wipe their own bums and were potty trained by 3, have you thought that there may have been more accidents then as well?

My DS was like lockets DC3. He started school 3 weeks afetr his 4th birthday. He couldn't wipe perfectly but he could do it.

Now though at 6yo he seems to have regressed - that goodness baby wipes are always on offer.

Thank you rillyrillygoodlooking as my son doesnt have a diagnosis but still finds some things more difficult than other kids i am trying my best but again because the lack of diagnosis the teachers are sort of saying they cant assist, but if he did have a diagnosis id assume they would have to help so its unfair on my son because he is borderline.

Many thanks as well to all the supportive/helpful messages as well

'*I agree with the 'years ago it wasn't like that

its true, when I was yong and caring for children by four ofcurse they could toilet themselves

becasue noone pandered to it*'

Rubbish - I was born in 1972 and I clearly remember having help with bottom wiping at 4. And it had nothing to do with independence per se - I was a typical 70s child in terms of getting buses at 9 and going to and from school and other places myself. I was just not that manually dextrous at 4. But you know what....eventually I was. Some children are independent wipers at 2, other take much longer but in the long run it doesn't matter at all.

No chance I would be wiping visiting children's bottoms, if you are old enough for parent free playdates then you are old enough to wipe your arse.

That's really mean Morloth. So do you specify which children can or can't come and play at your house? Competent bottom-wipers only. I'm a bit flummoxed as to how you do this - do you ask the parents beforehand? If not, and a child needed assistance with wiping at your house, what would you do? Refuse and send them home with a dirty bottom? How ridiculous you put your own petty principles above helping a young child...

Dancergirl has it right. I pretty much let DS decide when he wanted to stop wearing nappies, with encouragement though i.e. showing him pants, telling him he would be a big boy when he didn't wear nappies any more as a result DS announced one day at about 2 3/4 that he wanted to wear pants. Since then we have had very very few accidents.

Same thing with poos he was uncomfortable doing them in the toilet and wanted a nappy on for them so again that's what he had until he was ready to do them on the loo, which only took a few months with encouragement and praise.

No hassle for us and DS happy and confident with his toileting.

He has said he will wipe his own bottom when he is 5 ( is 4 3/4 now) and I believe him, why shouldn't I? He doesn't do his poos at pre school so it's not an issue, and until I read this thread, apart from the occasional inconvenience of having to halt my mumsnetting for a few nano seconds to wipe a bottom, it wasn't a problem for me.

I think I also read somewhere ( probably on mumsnet) that some children don't develop the ability to reach the back of their bottom and wipe properly until they are 4 or 5.

"I think I also read somewhere ( probably on mumsnet) that some children don't develop the ability to reach the back of their bottom and wipe properly until they are 4 or 5."

that made me roar

of course you did dear

nowt so strange as -mumsnet- folk with their self-justifcation for not bothering to teach their kids

lets put it down to a development phase shall we?

rofl

i remember when my daughters were about 2 and they would call down from the loo. Come and wipe my bottom.

once i didn't take any notice and my dd came down in front of party guests. lovely

activate you are just being rude now saying people aren't teaching their kids. my dd did struggle to reach when we toilet trained her - you can scoff all you like. Now she is 3 and a half and has slimmed down a bit and grown taller she can do it easily. It's not a matter of not teaching your kids if their fingertips can't reach their anus ffs (which obviously I'm lying about because I was too lazy to teach her)! Granted she was only 2 and a half when I first tried but people naturally vary in sizes and proportions just as there is variation as to when kids develop certain motor skills (even kids without sn).
How about kids who don't speak/walk til late? Some kids without sn still don't walk til the age of 2. Most will learn around one but there will be a few who learn a 9 months and a few at the other end of the spectrum nearer to 2 - is that because their parents haven't taught them?

And also I wouldn't leave very young kids in the toilet without help. The amount of under 5's that drown in toilet bowls through curiosity or messing around and being unable to pull themselves out is shocking! Most nurseries have very low toilets specifically so this can't happen.

I'm not sure why you can't comprehend that children develop at different rates activate.
I'm sure you'll get there in the end though.

I have a 4 year old boy and he is absolutely rubbish at it - he does it himself at pre school and I do it for him at home.

If he can do it for himself at pre-school, why do you need to do it for him at home?

I find it astonishing that mums are not teaching their children to wipe their bums as soon as potty training is started.

Kids drowning in toilets I heard never heard anything so daft.

This forum does make me chuckle.