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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to expect nursery to wipe my sons bum at 4?

446 replies

reality1 · 18/02/2011 18:48

Son is 4 and just cannot get the whole wiping bum thing and panicks when his bum isnt properly cleaned.
He has said he cant have a poo at nursery because he cant wipe his bum so he waits until he is home.
I had a word with nursery and they said they are not allowed to they can only talk him through it.
The trouble is my son has quite an issue with this so instead of being talked through wiping his bum he will just hold it in.
He is only just 4 before i get flamed for wiping his bum this long and there are 3 year olds in his class as well AIBU

OP posts:
noonar · 18/02/2011 20:05

i think there are degrees of wiping success, if i'm honest.

my dd definitely wanted help ubtil age 5 at home to do a really good wipe -lol. but could cope fine at school from just turned 4. it just resulted in slightly skiddier pants when she did it totally alone Grin

buttonmooncup · 18/02/2011 20:09

And in my experience as soon as kids can do something they want to be able to do it and they're proud they can do it by themselves so I don't think the 'you doing it for them is delaying them' theory holds any water. By all means encourage them to try but making them wipe themselves raw or leaving them dirty as punishment is just mean!

Original poster
reality1 · 18/02/2011 20:10

SOUTHEASTASTRA i can assure you that this problem is genuine and i wanted a few replies before i said anything else to school as i just presumed (wrongly before anyone shoots me down) that help would be given.
Im a bit upset my son has only just mentioned this and wanted to see what other peoples nurserys policies are.
I am going to have this week and see if i can improve the sitaution

OP posts:
noonar · 18/02/2011 20:13

i actually dont see the problem with doing what i did, in helping a child up to maybe 5 to do a really wiping good job with a messy poo.

the important thing is that they can have a go by themselves at school albeit a bit of a bungled job.

FannyFifer · 18/02/2011 20:14

God, DS is nearly 6 and still useless at wiping his arse, he does try occasionally but ends up wiping shite up his back.

He only does a poo at home and would never do it at school, so no big deal really.

He not too keen on doing a wee at school either, did a year at playgroup and a year at nursery both half days and never used the loo. Grin

BachAtTheMoon · 18/02/2011 20:18

The school I help in will not allow us to help wipe bums. If a child has an accident one member of staff is allowed into the toilets with the child and another must stood holding the door open and watching the whole time.

I think that the op is getting a really rough deal here as these things are really common.

Catnao · 18/02/2011 20:27

It's changed. I had to do all of those dreadful pushy ABOUT POO FFS mummy things as they would not take my son otherwise!! And they were allowed not to in 2002!

Catnao · 18/02/2011 20:28

Nearly all the kids were toilet trained properly and could dress themselves though - so not convinced it was a bad thing?

Loshad · 18/02/2011 20:29

YABU, i have 4 boys - so not a "girl" thing, and didn't consider them properly toilet trained until they could wipe their own bums and do own clothes. The earliest child could do this by 2.5, the oldest by 3.1.
They won't learn without practice, and recently children seem to have become very deskilled in the whole toileting department -only 15 years ago it was a widespread phrase to say to mums going mad over potty training " you never see a child start school in nappies", and you didn't (NT kids obviously) whereas now on mumsnet there are threads all the time reassuring folk tghat it's fine to send their 4.5 yo to school in pull upsHmm

Vallhala · 18/02/2011 20:35

Good grief. Four?! I'm in agreement with activate. I'd be walking away and telling a 4 year old child that they can do it themself and that I wasn't helping or pandering to cries of "I can't" too.

Chatelaine · 18/02/2011 20:38

Please don't forget to teach the handwashing lesson, over and over again, until they get it, Ad nauseam!

pearlym · 18/02/2011 20:38

I can understand the position as my 6 year old still doesn't get it entirely clean, but I do not think you can expect staff at a school nursery to do the job, tell him ot do his best, check him when he comes home and keep practising with him
I found the time when my younger one did a poo in her pants staff were v kind and sensitve and dealt with it as it was a one off - can't expect them to do regularly htough.

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 20:38

Haven't read the whole thread but....come on, you lot - I think you're being a bit mean Shock

He's only just turned 4 FGS - not old enough for school - I'm assuming he's starting in reception in September - a lot can happen in 7 months. My nearly 4 year old can't wipe her bottom yet....but she will in time. Hell, occasionally I even have to help my 7 year old wipe! Some children get this sort of thing earlier than others - like any other fine/gross motor skills.

And as for people who say they won't wipe visiting children's bottoms.....that's really mean and I'm a bit Shock So you'd rather send them home with a dirty bottom because of your own ideals about things....? I won't send my child to play at yours then.... I would always ask a visiting child if they needed help and if they do, I would help them!

To the OP - have you explained this to the nursery about him holding it in? That's not healthy and needs to be addressed. Can you sign a letter saying you give your permission? I seem to remember a friend doing this and giving her written permission for nursery staff to hold her son's willy when he did a wee. Can't remember the exact reason but there was one.

I hate all this no touching legislation. There was a reception teacher at dd's school who just floughted all these silly rules. If a child needed a cuddle, they had a cuddle. These are v young children we're talking about. And you know what....she was v popular with parents.

activate · 18/02/2011 20:44

you help a 7 year old wipe Shock

tyler80 · 18/02/2011 20:44

I wouldn't have thought 'holding it in' for a few hours would be that much of a problem and he'd soon be able to go at a regular time that's not during the nursery/school day.

When I was in primary school our infant toilets had no doors on them, I don't remember anyone doing a poo at school so wiping not an issue.

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 20:47

'I wouldn't have thought 'holding it in' for a few hours would be that much of a problem and he'd soon be able to go at a regular time that's not during the nursery/school day.'

What a silly thing to say - people have all sort of different rhythms. Some children go once every few days, others a couple of times a day.

Horton · 18/02/2011 20:48

I'm also shocked that some people wouldn't wipe a visiting kid's bottom. DD had a friend here this evening, she did a poo, I asked her if she wanted help and she did so I helped her. A four year old is a little kid. What kind of message are you sending out if you say no? You're too dirty to touch? Your poo is disgusting? Adults who like you won't help you when you need it? Horrible. DD's friend, btw, needed v little help, just a final wipe as DD does, but I would not have objected to doing the whole thing for her had she needed it. We've also had children round who didn't want me to help at all, and that's fine too. It's for the child to ask for and expect whatever level of help they need from an adult in loco parentis, IMO.

tyler80 · 18/02/2011 20:53

I've worked in a nursery (2+ so we did wipe bums) and out of the 30 or so kids who attended each day we maybe had to wipe a bum a couple of times a week, children attended for up to 5.5 hours a day. Maybe it's not a representative sample?

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 20:53

Exactly Horton Smile

Horton · 18/02/2011 21:03

Also, some children seriously do find it harder. Where DD is concerned she is absolutely tiny and has little bottom cheeks that sit v close together even when she is on the loo so it's not as easy as just a quick wipe - the poo gets on the inside of both bottom cheeks and it requires some actual common sense to be able to clean it all off without seeing it (common sense in fairly short supply in most four year olds of my acquaintance, although perhaps I am unlucky).

BigHairyLeggedSpider · 18/02/2011 21:09

My DSs wouldn't/couldn't wipe at 4. He used to yell "WIPE MY BUM!"" down the stairs...

Pulling our hair out over this loads and tried everything, fun wipes etc. In fact I think I might have asked for advice on here. Eventually just before his 5th birthday I told him that he was a big boy, and he didn't want to be the only kid in the class whos teacher wiped his bottom. On the morning of his 5th birthday, about 5am he came striding into the bedroom loudly announcing that he'd had his first morning poo and he'd wiped himself because he was a big boy now. We never looked back. Grin

He'll get it eventually, and in the meantime it shouldn't be an issue for him. Kids develop at different times and do stuff when they are ready. Yes I'd expect the teachers to help him and to encourage him to do it himself as well.

TO all the posters who say that a four year old should be able to wipe properly, well, well done you guys for having perfect dexterous bum-wiping kids. You must be so proud. Our non-wiper was doing his 8 year old brothers maths homework at 4 so yahhh booo.

SugarSkyHigh · 18/02/2011 21:13

YABU. As a nursery worker I am uncomfortable helping any child do this although what I will do, is to stand in the cubicle with them and tell them how to wipe. i.e., I will say, "take a big wodge of loo roll/toilet paper/whatever you call it at your house, and wipe - have a look at the wodge, and if there is poo on there, throw it in the loo and get another woddge and repeat" keep doing this until the wodge of paper is clean.
That means your bottom is all clean.
I then help them to flush because that can be tricky, and I support them to pull up their own pants and trousers.

SugarSkyHigh · 18/02/2011 21:15

And of course, to WASH THEIR HANDS!!!

but after a few sessions at nursery I will expect them to do this fairly independently if they are age 4 yrs.

mamofK · 18/02/2011 21:19

YABU - he is four!

bumpsoon · 18/02/2011 21:25

I remember moving to the town i live now when i was three ,nearly four . The little girl across the road who i became friends with ,was slightly younger than me ,by about 2 months and i will never forget the day she went to the toliet and then shouted for her mum to come and wipe her bottem, i was incredulous! I asked why she couldnt wipe her own bottom and she kind of just shrugged and said her mum always did it , i was really flabbergasted ,thinking but you are three ,we are allowed to play out in the cul-de-sac and you cant wipe your own bottom. Strangely enough ,she suddenly developed the ablility to do it herself after that . Do you know anyone with a child the same or slightly older age who can come to play and tell your DS how it is ,so to speak ?