To hate smokers

[Siennablue]

I have just spent ten days in hospital with my gorgeous dd2 as she slowly recovered from pneumonia. I met lots of great doctors and nurses they were amazing. But the majority of parents were scum. Children kept being admitted with asthma, tiny children struggling to breathe. One 18 month old was on her third admission. Almost every parent smoked, and so did every person who came to visit these poor kids. Then every few hours they have to leave the kids and go for a fag. They made the ward stink.
Wouldn't you think your baby gasping for air and screaming in terror would be enough to stop you smoking?
Bloody scum

Going to bed now, but last post made me giggle - "Smoking is bad for you and will probably kill you shocker"??
I think that's been a given since the links between cancer and other forms of illness were identified AGES ago!

Goes to bed shocked at the new concept that smoking is not really a great idea , and actually also goes to bed knowing that a person can be good and kind and wonderful and smoke..,.

before i go i take it you have'nt read back through pages,like i have so is it not hostile to call someone thick?double standards i think.i have no ememies,and get on with most people,but tonight has been a exception to the rule,i have spoke to some lovely people on here,but i did not come on mn to be upset,its like school,i was never buulied,but after tonight i can understand how that would feel.i am a grown woman with opinions,i did not look for a fight,or to upset anyone either.

nite nite to anyone who is still speaking to me!.

crazy i called you thick after you accused me of being mentally ill. you do have to wonder at the intellect of someone who, when faced with a differing opinion to their own, assumes mental illness. unless of course you were just being nasty, in which case i will retract my question about whether you were thick.

How this came about from a thread about smoking.............

mad isn't it catnao? totally uncalled for, the whole thing.

your the one being nasty,not getting into this again,i don't agree with smoking,or smoking near children,i do not have and never will have any problem with mentally ill people,i have no argument with you,i just thought it would be a interesting thread,so goodnight.

oh for goodness sake crazy. you were wrong. you were pulled up on it. it's over. done. end of.

This kicked off then?

Um.

Going back to the original topic.

You're not being unreasonable to hate smoking, or to hate those who choose to smoke (whether they have children or not) and you're not unreasonable to hold the opinion that they are scum. These are your opinions and you are entitled to have them and voice them.

The old arguments that obesity, alcohol, drug misuse etc cost the NHS more than "the odd fag" don't apply here. For one thing, "the odd chocolate eclair" doesn't make you obese, "the odd glass of wine" doesn't make you alcoholic. In addition, the fact that these things also have serious consequences when taken to excess is no defence for cigarette smoking (i.e. one thing also being bad for you doesn't make the first any better).

Anyone who smokes has traces of chemicals found in cigarette smoke in their clothes, hair and on skin long after the cigarette has been extinguished. These chemicals are also found in soft furnishings, childrens clothes, bed clothes - so called "third hand smoke". The fact that there are hundreds of other noxious chemicals in the air from cars, power plants or factories does not make exposure to these chemicals acceptable (see argument above).

Personally I think smoking is a vile and disgusting habit. Not sure I'd go as far as the sentiments expressed in the OP, but I certainly don't think she's being unreasonable to hold them.

(lifelong non smoker)

I just cannot understand why a lot of people on this thread seem to think that an adequate defense of smoking is to say that fat/sugar/car fumes are bad too.

It's not logical. It's just a childish way of justifying themselves. It may work to make yourself feel better but it won't magically make you smell bettersmoking good.

Is there any real proof that there is danger from "third hand smoke"?. I have only seen reports that say there is NO proof of it.

There is the same if not more amount of danger in the air from gas fires, open fires, cars, air fresheners, cleaning product fumes and many other carcinogenic substances that we are exposed to daily.

Travelling in a car is proven to be more dangerous, especially in heavy slow traffic, as the fumes from your own and other vehicles are inside the small enclosed space of your car.

Agree with Technokitten.
I work around hospitals and it never ceases to amaze me how many people you see outside the door, in their PJs, dragging the dripstand with them desperately puffing away. Anyone would think there's a link between getting sick and smoking to look at the numbers of people ....

squeakytoy - no-one seems to have carried out studies (yet) on helath implications of third hand smoke. But studies have looked at how various chemicals linger.
For anyone who is interested (and chemically minded!)

www.eoearth.org/article/Thirdhand_Smoke_Exposure_Concerns?topic=49473

By the way - my first day of non-smoking so keep fingers crossed for me!

Various chemicals linger from anything that contains chemicals though..

There are less people who smoke in front of their children now than ever, yet the number of children with allergies and asthma has risen dramatically.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's when nobody really gave any thought to smoking in front of children, and almost everyone seemed to smoke too. All my grandparents did, and my dad. The only one in the family who didnt was my mum. In fact my mum was the only one of the mothers of all my friends who didnt smoke.

Yet none of us kids had, or have grown up with allergies, asthma, etc.

We have become a nation that is resistant to anti-biotics and kids who are forever sniffing and coughing, mainly in my opinion because too many children spend their days cooped up rather than being outside getting exercise and fresh air. We have centrally heated houses and air fresheners filling them with chemicals that we are breathing in constantly.

I would say we were actually healthier back when smoking wasnt seen as the work of the devil.

I agree squeakytoy - I think I only ever remember about one kid at school with asthma when I was young but now there are loads.
And practically everyone smoked back then.
Slight exaggeration but still! Same with other allergic conditions too.
I reckon it's a combo of central heating, less exposure to "dirt" and too much use of air fresheners/sprays/harsh cleaning agents.
That worries me about what we are all being exposed to.

YNBU to hate smokers.
Selfish, self harming addicts.

Everyone smoked and we were all outside away from the smoke and we were healthier you say?

I hate smokers. They congregate outside my place of work as there is a porch over the door and they shelter there from the rain to smoke. It means I have to squeeze my self and my bump through a cloud of what are essentially carcinogenic toxins. Selfish gits, if they don't want to get wet while they smoke they should bring an umbrella to work!

TiggyD - if you read my post you would see that the everyone comment was tongue in cheek. But the numbers of smokers in the 60's and 70's when I grew up were huge.
And there were far fewer kids with asthma. That is a fact - asthma rates have soared.
Asthma and allergies are what I was talking about as an aside from the smoking debate.
Why have asthma and allergic conditions increased so significantly? That is what I am wondering.

well I love some smokers despite the fact they smoke. I hate smoking though.

But every day I see a woman drive past me smoking in her car, with 4 year old in the back seat - I SO FUCKING HATE HER!!

Thing is, smokers are, generally, not going to admit that it poses a risk. because to do so is saying that you know you are doing something that has the potential to be detremental to your child's health.

So you say that there's no evidence
and you say that you never smoke in the house
and you say that we should not mention smoking because x, y and z are all pollutants too
and you say that unless we can remove every possible pollutant or hazard then we should not try to remove any
and you get angry with people who say that smoking is not a good thing to expose your kids to

because it's all about feeling critisised and not wanting to truly accept that smoking is not doing you or your kids any favours.

What many smokers want, is for everyone to say, you know what, there's no proof that it kills, don't worry about it.
happy parent happy child, right?
other things are worse than a fag (which is true but it doesn't make cigs healthy)

Well it's not healthy. It does carry a risk and if you want to do it, then do it, but don't pretend that it's not harmful. Do it knowing that it has the potential to be harmful.

And, if you're going to attack me, then feel free, but read my post further up the thread first, where I point out that I actually smoke myself.

YANBU. Smoking is vile and disgusting, but smokers themselves are to be pitied as addicts, and helped, not hated.

As for the comments about the smell, you're right. It amuses me how many of my patients sit in front of me swearing blind that they don't smoke despite their unmistakeable reek.

I no longer ask whether someone smokes (the answer is frequently "No"; despite their fag packet being clearly visible in pocket or bag), but how many they smoke. Then they assume I already know they smoke, and give a slightly more honest answer.

When they have children, though, I make absolutely sure they are fully aware of the damage they are causing to their children. Many people try to justify themselves by saying that they "would never smoke near the children" thinking somehow that that is enough. Utter ignorance prevails, sadly; smoking AT ALL, near your children or not, has a direct and very negative effect on their health. It's really not that hard to understand.

iwantanotherbaby are you a gp?

BooyFuckingHoo: yes, I am