To be told to attend Cubs to observe son's behavior?

[carocaro]

Have been sent a letter by Cub leader who wants me to attend two sessions to discipline my son and watch due to behavior issues.

This is the first time in 7 months I have heard of any behavior issues. The letter is non specific and does not say what the issues are.

I have asked DS and he said he was told off last week for giggling during the flag ceremony.

I can't go as DH away and DS2 is 3 and will be in bed; a friend brings DS1 home from Cubs. I have emailed back (don't have his number) told them this and asked them to be more specific so I can talk to DS1.

Is this heavy handed? There are four our of 30 this has been sent to. Why can't they just pick up the phone or arrange to talk to me?

Vagueness drives me mad. There are no issues at school or elsewhere with behavior, so am mystified and want to get to the bottom of it.

You don't have to respect the flag. What you have to do is stand quietly in a circle while the leader gives out any information you might need for next week, hands out badges, enrolls any new cubs, and just generally does pack housekeeping.

I fail to see how expecting a 10 year old to pay attention for 5 minutes is such a problem - and is hardly "paramilitary"

And I really do think that someone who gives up a significant chunkl of their time to make sure kids have a huge amount of fun and learn useful and interesing things deserves some politelness and respect from those kids and their parents - and is hardly a stick up the arse martyr if they are upset be not getting it.

OK seeker I stand corrected re the expectations. I wasn't sure how this was approached. I do however remember enrolling in Brownies in the 80's and being told explicitly what was OK and certainly what wasn't.

Actually the OP has said repeatedly that she wants to sort out the behaviour but as the letter doesn't give any details of what the offending behaviour was,and her Email requesting more information has not been replied to and they have not supplied a phone number she is at a loss to know how to proceed other than to remind her ds about his behaviour generally.

I put my DS on the list for Beavers at 10 mths! I was a Brownie, Guide, Ranger, Young Leader, Adult Leader and Cub Leader. Can't wait for him to join next year. But any monkey business and he's in big trouble! He is a child, the leaders are adults who give their time for free so that he can learn. he will therefore be required to respect them and they will have my backing when enforcing good behaviour.

stuffing Do you know anything about scouting????

Baden Powell set it up as a christian organisation to teach children things they didnt learn/couldnt learn at school and give them opportunities they otherwise would not get.

The Beaver promise is

"I promise to do my best, to be kind and helpful and to love God"

Can you please explain to me what is "kiddy paramilitary" about that???

In the past 2 months my beaver pack has;
gone on a visit to a fire station
gone on a visit to a the national space centre
Will be going to visit a synagogue next month
raised money for charity
had a karate taster class
done a keep fit class
Acted out a story
performed science experiments
we made xmas wrapping paper, xmas cards and minty treats at xmas
We went to the panotmime
We are doing country dancing soon!

I fail to see what is so awful/paramilitary about that!!

We live in quite a deprived area...at xmas my son was the only one of the children who had ever been to a pantomime.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Stuffing I too fervently hope your DS doesn't want to join cubs !!(especially if he shares your attitude)

I think if a child is usually taken home by another child's parent from a meeting, it should dawn on the leader that maybe there is some difficulty in the way of the parent getting to the meeting, and therefore should ask if there's a preferred way to get in touch. All any of the adults here wants is for the situation to be resolved and for good behaviour at the meeting. The age of carrier pigeons is long gone. It is not courteous to ignore an e-mail from a parent when you've sent a letter home about a mystery problem.

I remember being in Brownies and Guides - some of it was fun, some of it was pointless and daft and there was always something a bit iffy about it. Any organisation that wants kids to make promises to imaginary beings is a bit silly to begin with. And while there's no harm in kids going to clubs that involve games, fun, socialising etc (and it's not unreasonable to expect them to refrain from fighting, stealing or damaging stuff while they are there) all this 'respect the flag' crap - and particuarly the sort of Royal SUmmons the OP recieved - is a sign of an organisation that takes itself far far too seriously.

I think that the Scout and Guide organisations offer many, many thousands of young people the opportunity to try new activities and experiences and meet new people, all under the supervision of dedicated leaders, who give their spare time and lots of it!) willingly.
It looks like StuffingGoldBrass's DC(s) sadly won't get that opportunity, as their Mum has already written off the whole organisation and the people that run is as crap and pompous. Shame. My experiences of both organisations, both as a parent and a leader certainly isn't that they take themselves too seriously - more that they are totally committed to providing the best opportunities for children and young people.

SGB, I think you're being provocative and have got completely the wrong end of the stick!

OP

book a babysitter and go and see for yourself
if the cost of a baby sitter seems a bit high, compared to what your son gets out of scouts, then pull your son out, problem solved.

YABU

this thread was started YESTERDAY!!! do you really think the cub leader sits on his email all day waiting to respond to messages from parents? all this 'hasn't even replied' business is ridiculous.

and i don't see how suggesting that you come for two sessions (when you've already said you do volunteer sometimes) is such a terrible summons. it's a suggestion to deal with problem behaviour.

Unless the email said YOU WILL BE THERE NEXT WEEK then just respond saying you can't right now but what can you do at home to help... or can it wait a couple of weeks?

i don't see why there is such vitriol on this thread... it's a kid being pulled up for behaviour, it happens.

DH got home just in time last night after charging up the M6 at great speed.

Me and DS talked to both of the leaders and it was as DS had said with me, talking, not listening, giggling and ONE incident of arguing with another Cub. The leaders said he was one of four who had been repeatedly told off for it and nothing changed. I agree totally with their frustrations and how this affects the running of the group.

DS apologised and said he would try much harder in future. I also told the leaders that I was somewhat surpsied at the letter as they had no previous issues and they themselves admitted that in hindsight, it was not the best way to have dealt with the situation, when two of the other boys in question had behavior which was much worse, involving a fight.

So I stayed and watch the whole session and there was giggling and not listening by others, with some running about when supposed to be doing activities. So although DS's behavior was not acceptable it was not horrific.

carocaro honey you did all the right things and I am very pleased it worked out all okay for you.

For those that posted on this thread implying that carocaro either did not care, or was being flippant or whatever other horrible ways you chose to describe her, I hope you read her update and maybe, just maybe, in the future you will read the OP and take it for what it is and not try and read more into it. Although some, I know, will use MN as a place to push forward their opinions whatever the case and offload their own grievances on some undeserving MNetter!

carocaro - a job done well go to the top of the class xx

carocaro I am glad you got it sorted out.

libra The OP described the leader as "playing god". I, for one, find that incredibly offensive and a complete over reaction to a leter requesting not ordering her attendance at a session to witness her sons disruptive behaviour.

If you honestly cant see why that has upset people then we will just have to agree to disagree.

As I said, I am glad it has been sorted out to the OPs satisfaction.

So 'disruptive behaviour' = talking, not listening, giggling and arguing. Shock and horror.

And two leaders couldn't handle it without a letter to the parents and having one of them hare up the M6, and disrupt a family's evening?

I'm very glad you mentioned the letter and got an admission that they needed to develop a sense of perspective. Two leaders who together couldn't handle normal childish behaviour that most teachers face on a daily basis, alone, in a classroom full of children, should volunteer somewhere else.

Teachers train for years to cope with disruptive pupils. Volunteers don't.

I would like to say a big thank you to all who volunteer to do cubs, brownies etc.

Can I add my thanks too? All 3 DC have been involved with beavers cubs scouts & explorers over the past 10 years and I am very impressed with the commitment and energy of the leaders.

This was all about communication, and I would have handled it completely differently. However, I'm glad it is now sorted out for you carocaro, and good on you for making the effort to comply with their request.

Beyond that, some people on this thread should wake up to the fact that thousands of adults around the country (I am one of them) give vast amounts of time to Scouts & Guides simply because they love working with kids and the kids love what they do for them.

The problem is that kids sometimes have a way of driving adults crazy. (I mention it just in case there is anyone on MN who hasn't noticed that.) Parents, teachers and volunteers don't always get it right in the heat of the moment. It's called being human.

Thanks for the nice comments from all those who appreciate us.

'Two leaders who together couldn't handle normal childish behaviour that most teachers face on a daily basis, alone, in a classroom full of children, should volunteer somewhere else.'

mathanxiety - I take it that you are a teacher?So am I and I can assure you that there is a real difference between handling behaviour in school and in beavers/cubs. What an arrogant comment.

The troops that my son has belonged to over the years operated a yellow/red card system, and suspension for one or two weeks. They also talked to parents. On two occasions, scouts were told they were no longer welcome at that group because they consistently chose to misbehave and weren't prepared to keep the few rules they had.
They also bent over backwards to be positively inclusive for my son, and put several strategies into place to enable him to cope with the different demands made.
It is one of the only social activities that he has been able to access because of the fantastic support and attitudes of a succession of volunteers over the last decade.
So I'm a real fan, and very grateful.

I am a secondary school teacher and my sympathies are entirely with the Cub leaders. I get paid, they are volunteers. I can call on others for help if necessary, they have no one. I have clearly stated rules that must be followed, they have nothing. Ultimately, I have the weight of the school, the Head and the Education Authority on my side, what do they have? I was specially trained to handle a group of kids, they weren't. However, if I leave because I've had enough, I can be replaced pretty easily. Good luck replacing a Cub leader! There are very few willing to take it on!

drsuess Thank you!

Attitudes like those of the OP and libra are sadly why people just arent willing to take on the (pretty huge) task of being responsible for other peoples children for any amount of time.

I am fortunate in that in our group we have a leader, me (assistant leader), a cub helper and a young leader but I know of groups where there is just one leader to a pack with occasional parent helpers.

Its very, very difficult and stressful at times and you simply cannot please all the people all the time.

We have parent helpers (well, one) and we are very grateful when she comes and helps...makes a big difference to us as we can be helping/watching the children whislt she does the washing up!!!

I get immense satisfaction from what I do.

At the moment we have 4 new beavers and to watch them happily play with their peers and join in on activites is wonderful.

We also have a new child with SN. Last week was a NIGHTMARE and both the leader and I have been racking our brains all week on ways to help him and accomodate his needs.

Last night he was more attentive, joined in the activity and stood in line when asked......doesnt sounds much but such an improvement on last week!!! The leader and I were very happy as was his mum!

We are off on a visit on sunday so we are all very excited!