To be told to attend Cubs to observe son's behavior?

[carocaro]

Have been sent a letter by Cub leader who wants me to attend two sessions to discipline my son and watch due to behavior issues.

This is the first time in 7 months I have heard of any behavior issues. The letter is non specific and does not say what the issues are.

I have asked DS and he said he was told off last week for giggling during the flag ceremony.

I can't go as DH away and DS2 is 3 and will be in bed; a friend brings DS1 home from Cubs. I have emailed back (don't have his number) told them this and asked them to be more specific so I can talk to DS1.

Is this heavy handed? There are four our of 30 this has been sent to. Why can't they just pick up the phone or arrange to talk to me?

Vagueness drives me mad. There are no issues at school or elsewhere with behavior, so am mystified and want to get to the bottom of it.

hello carocaro

No, I do not believe the sent letter is being heavy-handed at all. I think, if you really care about your son and how he conducts himself, then you should attend. Far too many parents have a 'can't be bothered' attitude, and it saddens me too.

I do not think that your son will just have been giggling, and if I were you, I'd sit him down and get him to tell you what he's really been up to.

It may seem heavy-handed to you with regard to the letter, the leader was correct just to leave an e-mail address, and they are also correct to want to speak to you personally about behaviour issues, but I understand your frustration about vagueness. Are there any other parents that you know got these letters as well? If so, have a wee chat with them if you can.

Although I like to think I bring my children up well, I have been totally astonished at times when I have learnt what my little 'darlings' have been up to!!! It's embarassing, and I bet you only want the best from your children.

My advice is, go along, get it sorted asap, show you can be bothered and you do care. You'll only be put out of your routine for a very short while.

I'm sure they can be fab evenings if you are a kid who likes that sort of thing, slightly. And it's very nice of people to run stuff for children in their own free time and put lots of effort in. My point is not really about the dibbing per se. It's that either the kid likes cubs, in which case he needs to behave, or he doesn't in which case there is no need for him to attend. So the problem will be solved if carocaro says to her son, "Oi boy! Do you like cubs or not? Either go and behave yourself or don't go. No skin off my nose either way but I'm not having you there behaving like a prat and I'm not spending my evenings at cubs so make your mind up."

My husband is a cub leader and just the other week got told to screw you, by a cub in front of me. Why should he put up with behaviour like that. But he can't do much about it. When the behaviour continues parents have to be envolved eventually. Most parents just want to pay their £1 subs and get rid of their kids for and hour or so. They forget that their children aren't alway angels, and will lie to their parent when caught out by bad behaviour (I speak as a parent of a child that has lied in the past) I know my children lie to stop thenselves getting into trouble. You need to take this seriously, they wouldn't call you in for no reason, Sorry if I sound brutal, but I know what goes on in these cub groups and some of the kids are just awful and rude (not saying yours is one of them) Just keep an open mind. I do agree though, if you attend your child would probably be on best behaviour, so I kind of think thats a waste of time. See if you can attend at the begining or end of a cub session to talk to them about. Hope all goes well.

I can't see the point in this parents must attend business. In terms of the hours involved, voluntary nature etc the football club my sons attend is similar - yet they would never expect parents to attend, unless they offered to. If a child's behaviour was an issue, the manager would speak to the parents and ultimately if it didn't improve the child would be asked to leave.

I don't see why it has to be so complicated.

Beaver/Cub/Scout leaders are amazing people and don't get the recognition they deserve. I've been involved with all of these groups and the behaviour of some of the children is quite frankly disgusting (not saying that your ds is 1 of these op). I do however think that the behaviour must be reasonably bad for the leader to have sent that e-mail to you.

Why can't your friend sit with your daughter while you go to collect both children so that you can talk to the leader? Come on, give them a break!

If you want your son to continue as a Scout, you need to do your bit and support the leaders in their quest to run a fun and safe group for all.

My husband is a cub leader and just the other week got told to screw you, by a cub in front of me. Why should he put up with behaviour like that. But he can't do much about it. When the behaviour continues parents have to be envolved eventually. Most parents just want to pay their £1 subs and get rid of their kids for and hour or so. They forget that their children aren't alway angels, and will lie to their parent when caught out by bad behaviour (I speak as a parent of a child that has lied in the past) I know my children lie to stop thenselves getting into trouble. You need to take this seriously, they wouldn't call you in for no reason, Sorry if I sound brutal, but I know what goes on in these cub groups and some of the kids are just awful and rude (not saying yours is one of them) Just keep an open mind. I do agree though, if you attend your child would probably be on best behaviour, so I kind of think thats a waste of time. See if you can attend at the begining or end of a cub session to talk to them about. Hope all goes well.

"I can't see the point in this parents must attend business. "

Our pack is so oversubscribed that we use the 'parents that offer to help are more likely to get their child accepted' arm-twist right from the off. :) We only have three leaders but there are 42 children to keep busy earning badges. Unlike football practice, the activities tend to be quite varied ranging from games to makes to learning experiences and science experiments. So the more help we get, the better variety of stuff we can do.

@Hatesponge I agree, why so complicated?

The OP is being treated unfairly IMO. She wanted more information and felt that the vague letter was a bit ott. Why not just send her letter asking her to contact them, okay by email if needs be, to talk about some behaviour issues. Why the attendance for 3 sessions to discipline and monitor behaviour but without giving her any idea about what?

The OP has sent an email, she's not trying to avoid anything she's just a bit upset about being 'summoned'.

Thanks LibraPoppyGirl so so so much! From my OP it suddenly turns out I have a 'vile child and a can't be bothered attitude whoose going to scream fuck off at the leader and all I want is to ger rid of him for some free childcare' (quote, unquote) which as you point out if far from the truth.

I can't take 3yo as session is from 7.15pm unti 8.30 and said 3yo is an eary riser and fast asleep by 7pm and it most times I have dropped off DS2 at Cubs in the back of the car and I carry him upstairs to bed. I could ask a friend to sit but I can't even get hold of the leaders to see if they are free to chat after the session; I am sure they want to get home and have their dinner.

I am on the parent rota and help out everytime I am asked, taking and preparing all the materias. DS attended an inter-cub activity where him and his team won the whole thing and I was talking to both leaders afterwards and they never said a thing about bad behavior. Ever.

I have sat down with DS again and he has said it's probaby the giggling too much and not listening and getting cross about something the other week. He is now in tears and does not want to go again; after oving it and Beavers since the age of 6. I know he is not perfect 100% of the time, but to be summoned with no real explanation and with no previous history of any bad behavior, I am perplexed. We both need to know what he has done and what has prompted this letter.

As I said before I am prepared to listen and talk it through, with an open mind. so far no response from my emails. DH is hoping to be back in time to drop in for the last 10 mins.

Hi carocaro I call it as I see it and I agree with what you have said and support you 100%. YANBU!!

For all the other posters on here that have been so unfair and negative on the OP I hope you are reading her latest post and can see how involved in her DS's cubs group she is and that she is a sensible and caring and concerned mother.

I think Op has been ganged up on a bit here and I'm quite frankly, very surprised that the original post has been so negatively received. It seems that so many who posted that are involved in cub/beavers etc got their backs up a bit because it was regarding something close to home and were taking her post as a personal attack and jumping to quite a few unjustified, unfounded and (to the Op), hurtful conclusions.

Stick to your guns carocaro you've done nothing wrong and are quite entitled to feel that not only was the letter you received a bit heavy handed but also the treatment received on here!

Other posters know the sheer level of work these unpaid volenteers put in. Supporting the volenteers with behaviour problems is the least a caring parent can do.

Surely you could make ONE meeting. One late night would not hurt your three year old. Your three year old could sleep in the pushchair. One late night would not kill your three year old.

I feel for the sake of your older child you should make the next meeting. He needs to know you take reports of bad behaviour seriously. Otherwise he will think its just one big joke.

reallytired no one, not me and especially the OP has refuted or underestimated the level of work these unpaid volunteers put into these activities. It doesn't just go for cubs/beavers/scouts either, it is across the board.

The OP has not said she will not address the problem and she has not said she will not attend a meeting. She does attend, she is on the rosta she is involved. The problem for her at the moment is that DH is away and she doesn't feel comfortable taking the 3yo to a whole meeting and then having to wait around with said 3yo until the end and have a meeting/conversation about DS.

She has emailed the leader and hopefully this can be worked out so that she can attend when DH is back. That is what she is suggesting.

She has done nothing wrong and she has been there for lots more than ONE meeting. Also from her last post DH is going to do his best to be back in time to get there for the last 10 minutes of the next meeting.

What is she doing wrong?

I agree with Hatesponge, this is all very unnecessarily formal and convoluted. I have volunteered at after school activities myself and would always be cognisant of the fact that there are lots of families with younger siblings who could not give up an evening to come to a Cubs meeting, where the behaviour of a child could be expected to be completely different anyway if the parent was present.

Nobody forced me to volunteer and I don't expect parents who may have worked all day to give up an evening or jump through hoops with baby care arrangements to give them information that I could tell them over the phone. I do my best to deal with the children and their behaviour -- anyone who can't deal with a child who is normally fine at school shouldn't be dealing with children; there are very few completely unmanageable children and very few activities that are so serious that a bit of playing around is going to completely spoil it for everyone, though I would draw a line at anything that poses a danger to anyone.

The OP has received a high-handed mystery summons from someone who takes him or herself far too seriously, imo.

Thunderous applause for both Hatesponge & mathanxiety

What this thread mostly goes to show is that a lot of the people who get involved in volunteer activity are officious, self-important whangers - the sort of people who wouldn't get the concept of a parent who, for instance, works in the evening but doesn't want to deprive DC of a fun hobby when another parent is happy to collect and drop off.
As someone said upthread, the OP could email the leader and say, I have spoken to my DS about his behaviour, if he carries on playing up he will stop coming to cubs so please let me know if you want me to take him out of the group. That's perfectly adequate and reasonable.

At my sons pack we got a note to say that as behaviour was so bad one parent would have to stay each week.

I was shocked at the appalling behaviour of the children. They were rude and ungrateful. I have worked in some very tough schools- this was a very affluent leafy lane cub pack. In the end my dh and I stayed every week and helped to bring it under control. The attitude of some parents was awful-one said - he deserves to have fun and let off steam (that was after her charming 9 year old had assaulted another child and swore at leader).

Another complained because her son was told off ( she said this isn't school, you know). No it isn't- in school, parents support the teachers and accept that children will be expected to behave. At cubs parents saw it as a free for all. Cub leader was an experienced deputy head. I am ex head and saw worse behaviour in that cub pack than in any school.

Maybe the expectations of behaviour are unrealistic and the activities planned are too ambitious?

The children are cooped up in school all day, then sit down and do a few hours of homework, then they have to all toe the line at Cubs in the evening -- I can see them not feeling too bothered about decorum, and not knowing how to behave in an environment that's not as structured as school and not as unstructured as the park is natural for children in a pack between ages 6 to 11 or so.

It has been my observation that people who coach sports make the best cub and scout leaders as they usually have some charisma that the average dad, even deputy head sort of dad, lacks. You have to have a commanding presence or the game is lost before it begins with boys.

I'm a Brownie Leader. It's 1.30am and I've just finished paperwork for Pack Holiday due in May. I'll be at work by 9am.

I have only once sent a note home about a Brownie's behaviour. It was not a step that I took lightly. After weeks of disruptive behaviour she attempted to attack another girl with scissors. Mum did not normally collect, so we were unable to have a quiet word. Turns out that there were various family issues and the girl was very much testing her boundaries. Once we'd established mutual rules, we worked through it and the girl is now about to be made a Seconder.

We give our time for free because we love it. But we do not enjoy having to deal with the minority of unruly/rude/violent/ungrateful ones.

Cheap childcare? Sadly, a few parents do see us like that. I had one mum most annoyed that I was not prepared to hang on for an extra 40 mins with her daughter until she got home from an evening job. Sorry, but I just can't. I've got family of my own too.

Some of the descriptions posted here describing the volunteers who run Scouting & Guiding activites are very hurtful, rude and downright untrue.

May I remind all of those who view us so poorly.... whether we are Scouts or Guides ... we all made the same pledge ... "I Promise that I will do my best ..."

Not at all. Very, very hands on, lots of outdoors. Consistent routines and expectations of behaviour from leader. He has a presence. I have since seen him teach as well- outstanding lesson.

I was a bit surprised when they asked for a parent each week and thought bit was a bit ott but not when I got there. Same leader also ran another pack which my son eventually moved to as we moved - no behaviour issues there but parents much more involved (came in at end didnt sit in cars outside , fundraised, etc) and seemed to value it more.

@carocaro.... I think you're building this up unnecessarily. No-one likes to think that their child might be misbehaving to the point of needing intervention. Cub leaders are not teachers or child psychologists or social workers, they're just regular joes who volunteer their time trying to help kids have a fun, safe time in a group experience. They don't always say or do the exact right thing and they can't take all and every personal circumstance into account. At least your son is being a little more honest about what really happened now... if the letter hadn't prompted you to ask, he would have probably kept kidding you along that he was just 'giggling'.

"It has been my observation that people who coach sports make the best cub and scout leaders as they usually have some charisma that the average dad, even deputy head sort of dad, lacks. You have to have a commanding presence or the game is lost before it begins with boys."

Cub leaders are volenteers, they are not paid. There is not an unless supply of such people. They NEED parental support other wise it is impossible.

Sadly some parents aren't prepared to face up to their responsiblites. They are full of lots of excuses rather than accepting they have to get off their fanny and start being a mother.

What a great post ecolady

If volunteering for cubs and brownies is such absolute hell, why not go and get a proper job in childcare? If you're going about it with a face of noble suffering and 'I am doing my Civic Duty Look at Meeeee' face on, no wonder the kids play up.

OP, fgs you should be horrified and embarrassed that your kid has been so badly behaved that a note has been sent, and should be doing everything you can to rectify the situation. Take some responsibility for his actions! Doesn't matter how much you paid for it or when it is, your kid has behaved badly, you have been informed, and YOU as his parent need to do what you can to sort it out. There is only so much the Scout leader should be doing, they are there to lead a pack of Scouts not constantly discipline your child.

And the people being nasty about Scout leaders and other volunteers, there are no words. Except maybe twunt.

ultimately parents are responsible for disciplining their children. if children are so badly behaved they become a danger to other children or ridiculously disruptive it is not up to people like scout leaders to act in loco parentis.

i'd be grateful that they contacted you and are giving you the opportunity to discipline your son rather than just ban him from the group.

surely this is the responsibility you take on when you choose to have a child?