To be sat open mouthed at the Idiocy of Dave Camerons latest headline grabber

[penelopestitsdropped]

Multiculturalism has failed

Now whilst i believe the debate itself has merit ( though think that DC has put a rather disturbing anti islamic slant on it)
I do not think it the wisest day to do so given that there is a planned march by the English Defence League (think BNP with more hair) today

march in Luton

I don't agree with europeans being able to get child benefit for children who do not live in britain. Especially when they want to cut child benefit for higher earners(not us).

I'm sure Gordy will be wholly in favour of this.

difference is gordy, most English can't afford to live off the wages that the Poles can because the poles live loads to a house and share the rent amongst them - also the money they earn from here is worth a fortune in Poland, you could work for a year here on minimum wage and be quite well off when you went back to Poland, Have you ever visited Poland - you don't need much spending money!!!

i think that we have reciprocal agreements in place with other eu countries which would entitle you (if you were in spain or germany say) to claim the equivalent of WTC or CTC or whatever provided you were eligible - earned below a certain threshhold

this can't be changed unless we pull out of the eu i reckon

non-eu migrants do not usually have legal recourse to benefits - on my work visa when i first came, i had this stamped on it, and this only changed once i received indefinite leave to remain

i don't know if the rules change if you enter the country as a spouse, or sponsored by a family member

i came knowing no one, but with a work visa for a particular job - i would not have been able to legally show up and then do some other job, or if i had lost my job, just get another, i would have had to return to my country, find a job, and my new uk employer would need to apply for a visa

in their application, they have to show that not only are there no suitable brits for the job, but no eu candidates either

i think the laws are stringent enough (wait before you choke) but i don't think that they are enforced as stringently as they could be

Honestly, have you not read anything I have written Gordy?

StarlightPrincess Sun 06-Feb-11 13:41:07

Don't tell me that EVERY SINGLE IMMIGRANT who comes over here wants to work! Just like there are British people who are fucking lazy and don't want to work, there will be immigrants who want to do the same!

And for the record, I don't agree with the scroungers who were born here doing it either!

Hasn't there been stark warning against kerbing immigration from industry though? Yes, theres the low paid jobs that the Brits think are beneath them that support busineses (there is then the exploitation argument due to low pay, but you cant have everything!) But my worry is the specialist skills that we would miss out on too. I work in a biology department of a university - lets just say that world cup time is very interesting and thats a good thing.

Starlight- I think you know where I'm coming from and some of it won't make great reading for some people whatever their bloody background/

But do we care? No - I don't feel a victim - victimhood is a product of more modern society.

I'm sure youre parents went through some shite and they dealt with it as it came.

Difference - nowadays - people are on the attack before they've even percieved anything not respectful. That does have an affect as everyone is on the defensive.

Plus my non white mum would kill quite alot of the (oh not quite english) white and non white posters for dissing the white father of her child. That's what they forget - that UK is a complex society made up of different ethncities, religions, languagues, classes and aspirations.

You cannot categorise British people.

I think that migrants categorise these days alot more than 'proper english people'.

chibi, that is how i understand it works in australia too - makes sense doesn't it. Like you say, they spend so much time dithering about getting the right policy that they don't enforce the ones they have in place that actually work.

soft - i don't blame my cousin for having become bitter, imagine how he feels? the uk has had a HUGE influx over the last few years of eu builders. yes they work incredibly hard, infact i wouldn't want to be a uk builder for that reason alone as it would be hard to compete. eastern european builders work incredibly hard and for less money, not easy to compete for work against but you still can't blame someone like my cousin for being bitter. he is also hard working and honest, he is just trying to live his life. it is not nice to undercut someone like that, just because you can do it doesn't mean you should (i refer to him being followed by another van who knocks on the door once he has driven off to offer the women a lower quote. i know i could not do this. imagine going to another country to work and doing the same. not in a million years

Ohthehuge - thanks for the question - bloody hell - that's bloody amazing.

But can't answer as my life isn't about race (unlike many of the posters on here) but about my ds and I'm trying to deal with some homework.

I will answer you. My experience may throw up surprises but it's MY EXPERIENCES. Not anyone elses.

But can be as englightening as it's confusing.

Starlight- I think you know where I'm coming from and some of it won't make great reading for some people whatever their bloody background/

But do we care? No - I don't feel a victim - victimhood is a product of more modern society.

I'm sure youre parents went through some shite and they dealt with it as it came.

No, you're right, I honestly don't care about it. I have never felt like a victim, why should I? I won't allow myself to have that mentality! I know exactly what you mean.

My parents did go through shit, but they weathered the storm, and are still together to this day. A great example of integration as far as I'm concerned!

bringnbuy, my DP is a self employed builder, he has never been undercut in this way - im not saying it doesnt happen though and yes, thats frustrating. Trouble is, you have to blame the customers really - you get what you pay for, if someone offers to do a job cheaply, you are going to get a cheap job. My DP works bloody hard and gets jobs because he is good at what he does. He is expensive and tends to work on high end projects maybe thats why he doesn't have the compitition

omg my spelling

I think Australia have a fantastic immigration policy.

soft if you read that again it does sound a bit up yourself, we're alright Jack so we'll dismiss your concerns!!! NICE!

australia's immigration policy is really not that different from our own, the only (mega really) difference is that they are not part of a federation of nations which have agreed to open borders and free movement of labour between them

dobie, i am simply telling it like it is - and no, we are not bloody alright jack, or anyone, we are bloody struggling thankyou very much i am just saying that my DP has never been undercut. I also tried to explain why i thought that might be.

what i mean as, if i were to want to immigrate to australia, without any family there, i would face the same sorts of hurdles that i faced as a non-eu immigrant

soft - that is probably where the difference is then, my cousin lives on an estate in luton. he is a basic every day builder, nothing 'high end', he just does standard domestic painting and decorating. he is having a nightmare and i worry about him. i know the women who answers the door is the one who can make the decision but i still think it is wrong to be in another country and to be so underhand and sneeky behind someones back. if i had had say a polish builder come round and give me a quote and then ten minutes later i had had an english builder knock on my door and offer a lower quote i would still employ the polish builder as i would think it dishonest of the english man. i am trying to prove a point as to how i would feel about this, this is not a race issue which is why i swopped the nationalities round

And that difference is what needs addressing, in my opinion.

yes, and im a bit unsure of the free movement of labour thing, in flourishing economic times it can only be a good thing, but during recession, im not sure it was the wisest thing to have happened.

If your hubby is 'expensive' by your own admission then I can't really see how you are struggling - anyway that's none of my business, I was just saying just because a situation doesn't bother one individual doesn't mean if won't affect another!!!

ps: i think luton has alot of polish people living there so this would probably explain as to why this happens to my cousin

i don't know if you can legislate for that though, i think that with respect to the eu

we would have to have all states agreeing to re-evaluate the eu migration policy and agree to an alternative, is this likely, i don't know

or leave the eu altogether and negotiate agreements with individual countries

I agree with you bringnbuy, its totally unethical. I can only relate our experience. DP says that you see a lot of eastern euros and chinese guys hanging around B&Q in the mornings looking for work. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that my DP is in anyway superior, its just that he does charge a lot of money - never bloody seems to make any though but thats a different thread! Maybe your cousin would benefit from working out of his area, thats what we have to do - so he has four hours commute on top of his working day to enable the extra charge, but there are extra expenses that come with this - anyway, thats a whole other discussion :)

dobie, you are right, none of your business and nothing to do wiht this thread. Just pointing out to bringnbuy why there are differences is all. Christ