To be sat open mouthed at the Idiocy of Dave Camerons latest headline grabber

[penelopestitsdropped]

Multiculturalism has failed

Now whilst i believe the debate itself has merit ( though think that DC has put a rather disturbing anti islamic slant on it)
I do not think it the wisest day to do so given that there is a planned march by the English Defence League (think BNP with more hair) today

march in Luton

ta !

please do tell me how allowing people to build places of worships is 'bending over backwards' to accommodate them?

This is what I mean by 'white Brits' (and I choose the term because that is what they tend to id themselves as) being the biggest barrier - because they (Daily Failesque half informed fearful people) seem to think we have done LOADS to help no Brits - they believe the stuff they read. Giving people the same rights we expect and take for granted is NOT bending over backwards :)

LOFTM - I don't think there's been much of a debate really has there?

DP is or was a smug hatemonger - no debate with her and just like you she'd ask a miriad of questions but avoid answering any herself.

The reason why anything she posted on generated alot of 'heat' was because I think that one of main cornerstones of british society is the fear of extremism. British politics and people are pretty insipid and people are uncomfortable of anything that smacks of facism. Yep - there are groups that just bubble under the surface but there's a very good reason why far leaning political groups don't get seats at westminster.

Gordy- Please stop posting smilies at the end of your posts. It just reeks of passive aggressiveness.

giveitago- Who is DP?

Sorry my MN went down.

Forgive me if it seems I am "avoiding" questions, please ask away. I shan't disclose my country of birth as I see it as irrelevant.

As you're full of opinons, GiveItAGo, perhaps you could tell me what one must do to "fit in" with British "culture" (whatever that may be). What routes must one exhaust to be seen as "making the effort" to fit in?

It isn't a legal requirement, so why is it so important?

a so called 'controversial' poster.

anything she posted on would generate a very heated exchange of words and it would get pretty confusing. But then she'd hide behind a veneer of niaivity. But she seemed to very much enjoy putting people's noses out of joint to the point I think she didn't even believe in the half she posted but instead did it to get a reaction. IMO.

Passive aggressive - hmmm like resorting to little digs rather than answering peoples valid point - okay then :)

Oh, right, I know who you mean now! I've come to the conclusion that there really is no point arguing debating with LOTM.

That should be a strikeout!

Oh Gordy, you sound like a classic white apologist.

I have no idea what you mean by that :)

Someone who is ashamed of their race, and feels they have to apologise and side with every ethnic minority because of it.

oh well you are wrong then and I think that's a rather lazy and ignorant argument

There needs to be more dialogue, more understanding on all sides. There is an increasing muslim community where i live and im curious, I don't know very much about Islam. I would imagine that we might see a mosque built locally soon - great, so can i have a look inside? An open day, this is what we are about type thing alongside a cake stall . I am genuinely interested nosey and it can't be a bad thing.

I know that seems a bit niave and twee because there are clearly deep seated issues and it worries me that young people are being marginalised. I think young people always want a cause to feel passionate about, and they seem to me, becuase i dont know any better, to be being exploited by the extremists. I think you are going to see this sort of thing in lots of cultures, gang culture in london its a young person and poverty thing rather than young person and religeon thing, but give it a cause and you have a powder keg.

No smiley this time?

but if DC wants to STOP young people being marginalised WHY is his government destryoing youth and community services in this country - it's madness - who does he think is going to move in if youth services move out?

but again some young people belong to Islamic youth groups - my daughter goes to a church youth club - no difference there :)

Starlight rather than baiting me with every post do you have an actual point to make or anything further to add to the debate - you are becoming a bit irritating.

for instance you haven't responded to my post asking what you mean by bending over backwards - aside from giving people equal rights regardless of their faith - unless you think that is wrong?

What, and your insipid apologist attitude hasn't been irritating for the start?

At the end of the day, you can argue the toss all you want, but like I have said before, this problem is real. As much as you might not see it where you live Gordy (or choose to close your eyes to it) it exists. This is not something that the 'white Brits' have just made up to pick on Muslims. Yes, I know, we know, the whole world knows not all Muslims are like this. But a worrying group of them are, and can you blame people for being scared and fearful? Especially after the 7/7 bombing?

gordy, im with you there - it was a dark day for England when that man walked into number 10 :(

I know a young muslim lad - he is as scared about the whole thing as i am. A worrying group? There are worrying groups everyhwere -EDL? They worry the fuck out of me! National Front under a new mask.

To be honest, everything that Britain has done to accomodate Islam is this country is bending over backwards. And we have done the same for every other group of immigrants who have come to this country. Did I mean it in a bad way? No, just stating that we have done everything to make them feel accomodated and welcome in here.

are you scared of irish people Starlight? Or white men (the majority of paedophiles are white men) - because some British Muslim men chose to blow people up - that is not a reason to live in fear of all Muslims - how sad to be so scared of people.

I live in Birmingham and I am from Liverpool - with have ethnic groups in both cities - suprisingly!

I agree the the EDL are a disgrace as well. But, they are a result of the white, working class of this country being overlooked and ignored in recent years.

HOW - what HAVE WE DONE - you seem to keep banging on about bending over backwards without giving ANY examples

Mosques - we also have jewish Temples, Hindu Temples, Churches (both CofE and Catholic) etc

Halal Food - well we also have Kosher food and most places cater widely for veggetarians

Schools - we have had Catholic, Jewish and Cof E schools in this country for years

so what have we done differently for Muslims?

I fear no race. I'm merely stating what a hell of a lot of people think.

Starlightprincess - I do not mean to offend, but it comes across as if you have something to prove about being British yourself. You said that some of your parentage is not of this country and I am wondering if you deep down feel that you have to validate your belonging to this nation more than others. I say this as you have made statements such as:

"I can understand anyone who emigrates to have a longing for their homeland, but not people who are born and bred here, as this IS their homeland."

Massive sweeping generalization that I am sure my DP disagree's with. He was born and bred here but he feels that the English are not as accepting as you are putting across.

"I love my Jamaican heritage, and am proud of it. I am curious to know and learn about my family. But a longing to 'return to my homeland'? Not at all. I'm English, first and foremost as I was born and bred here. Jamaica is one half of my heritages ancestral home. I long to visit, but not because I miss it, how can I miss it? I'm not Jamaican!"

Also, you seem to lack knowledge or understanding of your Jamaican heritage. You realize that this same great nation that you are talking about kidnapped your ancestors from thier homeland and brutalised them before dumping them on an island where they recieved further brutalisation? Some English people think of you as a mongrel half breed, I hope you know that along with your fierce patriotism. And many, many of them would quite happily put you on a boat and ship you back to a homeland you seem very ready to deny. So yes, you have the freedoms you have mentioned, but many would dispute that you even have the right to call this your homeland due to your Jamaican heritage.

You are talking about this country bending over backwards to accomodate all these foriegners (to a certain extent I agree, even as a foriegner myself), but keep in context how other nations have bent over backwards to accomodate the English. This includes your ancestors, who would have been slaves to the Englishman, working the fields in herrendous conditions to provide England with profit made on the back of slavery. Maybe then it is time for England to give a little back to the other nations of this world.

Because you are not allowed to say ANYTHING about Islam that isn't positive, in my experience.

I remember at school in RE saying that I didn't believe the Qu'ran was the direct word of God, and the hate and vitrol by Muslim boys directed at me was quite frankly disgusting. All because I disagreed with their belief.

But yet, it's fine to not allow Nativity plays in schools, or to call Christmas 'Winterval' for fear of offending Muslims, what the fuck is that about?