To be sat open mouthed at the Idiocy of Dave Camerons latest headline grabber

[penelopestitsdropped]

Multiculturalism has failed

Now whilst i believe the debate itself has merit ( though think that DC has put a rather disturbing anti islamic slant on it)
I do not think it the wisest day to do so given that there is a planned march by the English Defence League (think BNP with more hair) today

march in Luton

Starlight - I'm also realistic and hearing alot of views on this thread confirms that it can never be.

I haven't heard so much hatred and racism in the name of antiracism in quite a while.

I didn't hear any views - I read them.

Gordy - why is the biggest barrier white brits?

Agree with NotECM, we are all very different. Some of us prefer Strictly to X-Factor.

When i was growing up i remember the muslims being a lot more liberal and free-thinking..but i also remember the p**i bashing. You cant win either way.

It is becoming more 'them and us' nowadays, and the result of that is people choosing islam (and more fundamental, then they would normally practice) over nationality. Can you blame 'us'? Would anyone who feels torn between their faith and the country that they live in choose otherwise?

I can understand anyone who emigrates to have a longing for their homeland, but not people who are born and bred here, as this IS their homeland.

because white Brits seem to have HUGE issues with other cultures in fact some white Brits are becoming extremist and fundermentalist

but mainly because white Brits are the MAJORITY and still hole 90% of power :)

Yep, blame the white Brits, the ones who have bent over backward to accomadate their religion by giving them the freedom to build mosques, the right to eat Halal food, to speak their own language freely, to build Muslim faith schools, the list could go on.

Are you ashamed of being white Gordy?

I remember sitting on the tube and feeling anxious when hearing someone with an Irish accent. I even felt irritated at the constant delays which were routinely blamed on IRA plots. However it wasn't until I stopped fearing and actually engaged in dialogue and learnt the history behind the politics that I understood the reasons for the cause and that not every Irish man was responsible for the violence that was constantly portrayed in the media.

The Irish have throughout their difficult times remained proud of their culture and despite being the former 'terrorists' who refused to comply with the demands placed on them
they are now no longer the terrorists but recognised for their values and culture.

*accommodate

Dunno starlight - did you say your dad is black? If so aren't you curious about where he came from originally and any family there.

I'm british and my mum, although asian, is born and bred in east africa so I'm kind of at home in african countries and I've never been to asia at all (yet).

My ds is british but his dad is a national of another eu country and really plugs it totally! I think he takes it way too far but that's how he is.

gordy - i don't think you like white brits much....some are quite nice you know. i think the way to go would be if communities were to not blank each other and try and find some kind of common ground, perhaps chat to each other and say 'good morning' in the street. i think it depends where you live and what sort of neighbours you have but it might cancel out the feeling of living among strangers. there is a dry cleaners where i live. a young muslim chap works in there. he has always been very standoffish with me and tbh i doubt he has any white english females friends or ever has come to think of it, anyway, it has taken a while but he is friendly to me now which makes me smile. he smiles and we have a chat. this is how it should be, people treating each other as equals

Gordy - but do you mean white british people or generally white people here? Oh do you mean what I call 'proper english people'?

Erm I find it no coincidence that racist comments against my mum have increased with the increase of europeans living in this country. She's horrified and quite rightly so.

I think perhaps gordy feels exempt from being a white racist as she possibly not of english background

I love my Jamaican heritage, and am proud of it. I am curious to know and learn about my family. But a longing to 'return to my homeland'? Not at all. I'm English, first and foremost as I was born and bred here. Jamaica is one half of my heritages ancestral home. I long to visit, but not because I miss it, how can I miss it? I'm not Jamaican!

The right to eat halaal food? speak my language freely?

Cheers for that! Very grateful because carrots and sign language would probably have really got you riled against us.

YOU did not give me anything, and I have not taken anything from you. You do not know me and vica versa because you do nt represent the white brits and i dont represent muslims.

Ooooh, touched a nerve have I?

I'm not white British either, read my previous posts before you assume things.

Of course you will touch nerves.. was that your intention?

was that your intention? poke a muslim before she pops?

I have realised that your not white..british..actually i haven't because that is my point. I dont know you and you do not know me. Stop being so aggressive.

I apologise if you think i am being hostile, because i can do that.

I am not sure it is such an issue with the generation that they are choosing faith over nationality. Those born here recognise and respect their parent homelands but they are not able to change the fact that they are born here and only know this country as their home. The issue is created when prominent figures are singling them out for not integrating in the country that IS their home. Schools and faith buildings are a part of the culture of Jewish, Christian, Catholic, Hindu ....and the list goes on. Just as the existence of cultural organisations are often an important consideration for us Brits when considering living abroad! We have to remember that their are clear segregations in other faiths, such as the Jewish faith who cannot marry anyone not born into the faith, have separate burial grounds etc. My point is each faith has it's own principles of living, however at the moment it is the Muslims that are being singled out and criticized for doing so.

I can understand how the veil can be considered an issue in certain social/professional circumstances, however the token headscarf is no more a symbol than the practising Jewish woman's wig or the Sikh man's turban.

I think that when you immigrate you have a greater need to hold on to your culture because you want to hold on to the familiar when everything is strange around you. You want your children to be brought up in that culture because otherwise your children can become almost strangers to you. You may also become more aware of the things of value about your own culture that perhaps you didn't value so much when you were still in your originating country. I've certainly felt a bit of all of those things and I have moved from the UK to a country that is very very similar.

We emigrated totally by choice, and to a country that has very strong links to the UK and where people are very positive about us being English. How much stronger must those feelings be when you move from necessity and where many people are suspicious and at times downright hostile?

I don't understand why DC thinks people should think of themselves as (eg) Muslim but a Londoner - surely it's perfectly possible to be a Muslim and a Londoner? That's how most of my friends define themselves (and it's interesting that he should use the local definition because I think it is easier to define as belonging to a city than a nation).

To those who think that the States have done things better I'd say that my experience of living in New York City in an area of great ethnic diversity was very similar to living and working in South London, except that the level of openly displayed racism was much higher.

Yes actually, I do think you're being hostile and defensive.

The point I was making is that in this country, you get the freedom to practise your beliefs whatever they may be. For God's sake, we even accept Jedi's as a religion! We should all be greatful we live somewhere where you are not persecuted for what you believe in. You (meaning the plural, not you as a Muslim) would not get the same courtesies extended to you in less tolerant countries as you would here- look at France, for example, with the banning of the Hijab.

Just meaning to add, I know the wearing of the Hijab is not a religious issue, but a cultural one, but it was the first example I could think of off the top of my head.

I don't thik multiculturalism has failed. I'm proud that being British enables you to be any religion you like and are free to dress how you please. I don't think someone who comes to this country should dress a certain way or adopt any lifestyle to fit in. It's fine if someone wants to wear the hijab an avoid alcohol so long as thay respect other religions and lifestyles.

I have lived in East London. There's racism in all cultures. Where I lived it was mainly white (getting less so) close by another area was a lot more Asian. There are a mixture of factors that caused this, housing policy, language barriers, feeling safe within your own community etc. It's simplistic and unfair to say Muslims are choosing to live in ghettos. Some are racist though and that needs to be tackled through education just like white racism is.

Surely if David Cameron thinks muslim integration is such a big problem, he should give the money he takes away from muslim groups that don't promote inclusion and give it to those that do. Personally I think this is all about taking money from a group of people who are sadly becoming more and more disliked in our society. Using scapegoats to plug the deficit. It will also please dickheads who believe everything they read in The Sun and the Daily Mail.

I do think we should not be too politically correct to challenge things such as forced marriage. That is something that does go against British values. DC is not doing that though, he is withdrawing money from certain groups.

and yes, you should be grateful to the british government, all immigrants should as they have opened up their borders and allowed you to come here and make a home in a safe democatric country.

You imply that I am from an un-safe country of origin? I do not seek asylum, thank you very much. Women of Islam do not wear traditional coverings to openly "reject British society", and if you think that then I believe you are extremely irrational and paranoid.

i love the feel of a community that care about one another, who speak to each other and will look out for one another. i don't want to live side by side with people that hate me and shut me out of their lives.

How many of you can honestly say you live in the type of community where people are all friends and "look out for one another"? I lived in London for long enough to see that the majority of my white British friends never knew their neighbours/people in thier bildings. Isn't one of the things the British public are always moaning about come election time, the need for a "community feel"?

Manatee I have been asking for a long time on this thread for someone to tell me the British way of life, or even what it is that "us foreigners" should strive to be like!

cantspell- I have seen some women, yes half dressed, in the bleak of winter on a Saturday night. Just because the men you saw, you thought they'd benefit from a coat, doesn't mean it doesn't work the other way around.

Scared of Cows another fabulous remark, thank you. I don't claim CB, I refuse to as I don't need it. I don't use NHS hospitals, as I can afford not to. So perhaps, I am not reaping the benefits of your society, but paying enough tax for the good people of your country to do so, had you considered that?

PS: I don't have a clue who DP is or is supposed to be.

Gordy a standing ovation for your posts, they have been wonderful to read.

Oh and for those of you who thought "I'd run away". I merely went to bed.

LadyOfTheManor- So proud of her homeland, but yet won't reveal what it is. Very strange.

You are doing a fine job of sounding like a typical Arab stereotype, in the EDL/BNP's eyes. So you carry on.

The debate is about how well other nationalities settle into Britain. My country of birth is irrelevant to the discussion.