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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that anynoe who believes in star signs is a complete numpty?

678 replies

bettybosseye · 01/02/2011 18:52

I mean it's so clearly such a great stinking heap of horse shit, how can anyone actually believe it?
Another mum at playgroup today was telling me what kind of personality my 9 month old will have based solely on her star sign.
All pleasant enough stuff but she actually believed it.
What's wrong with people?

OP posts:
BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 10:07

do you only read your own posts. BMJ, NIH, WHO, all have completed meta-analysis of research that validates the effectiveness of medical acupuncture.
Could you explain to us how your research is more valuable?

Snorbs · 03/02/2011 10:08

"I was offering to tell people, at a very quick glance why they think it rubbish. Only 2 came forward and it was easy to find out why and they won't change their minds!"

So you take a known fact about someone - that they're sceptical about astrology - and their star sign, and you miraculously find some factor in their horoscope that shows you why they're sceptical. And you think that says anything positive.

Have you ever heard of the term confirmation bias?

Witchofthenorth · 03/02/2011 10:08

Perhaps I am one of the "thickos" then as I had taken from this thread that religious people are not thick because they know there beliefs are not scientific just as you state, however, if you believe in the effectiveness of other areas that have been brought up throughout this thread, you are stupid for believing it......

Are we in actual fact stating that those who believe mumbo jumbo, but know it is not scientific are intelligent, but those who blindly accept that mumbo jumbo is the be all and end all are stupid...

I am completely aware that I am most probably coming across as a wee bit dim, but it is a genuine question :o

Lamorna · 03/02/2011 10:09

I wish people would understand that I am not talking about star signs!

StuffingGoldBrass · 03/02/2011 10:10

Again: the things acupuncture is supposed to work on eg chronic pain, leg pains etc. These are all things that depend a lot on the sufferer's state of mind - and often randomly come and go, according to the weather conditions, what the patient's been doing lately, etc. So some sympathy and a bit of woo might well help the patient feel better from time to time. Placebo 'medicine' isn't necessarily a bad thing if it makes the patient feel better.
The main problem is with taking this crap too seriously is that its practitioners number a certain amount of deluded nutjobs who can do a lot of harm by claiming to cure conditions that need real medical intervention.

BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 10:18

Thats true, but the latest neuro-imaging studies using fMRI and PET show differences between effects of placebo, expectation and actual effect.

Homeopathy any one of can tell on basic logic and physics that its bollocks. But none of you can say that for acupuncture, its not that simple.

GrimmaTheNome · 03/02/2011 10:20

Are we in actual fact stating that those who believe mumbo jumbo, but know it is not scientific are intelligent,

Well, they may still be numpties but there's a chance that they're intelligent when they're thinking about other subjects Grin

RustyBear · 03/02/2011 10:21

Lamorna - you may not be talking about star signs, but the thread title is 'AIBU to think that anyone who believes in star signs is a complete numpty'...

CoteDAzur · 03/02/2011 10:23

Lamorna - What are you talking about, if not "star signs"? Do you claim some other basis to astrology?

GrimmaTheNome · 03/02/2011 10:25

Could there be a physical basis for acupuncture something akin to TENs machines?

It seems to me there could be an underlying real effect with acupunture (in addition to placebo) but its been over-complicated over the centuries and woo-ified.

BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 10:29

Its not definitively proven or adequately explained, but if you got rid of everything in medicine that was both you wouldn't have that much left!

Cochrane reviews applied to use in different conditions vary but the meta-analyses are interesting.

melikalikimaka · 03/02/2011 10:31

What about the chinese new year, are you a rabbit, snake? Crap or what?

Hullygully · 03/02/2011 10:33

Hullygully Thu 03-Feb-11 09:33:06

Technically, acupuncture isn't placebo because the pricking does work. It doesn't have to be fancy needles etc, but the fact that pricking the body works means it isn't a placebo.

CoteDAzur · 03/02/2011 10:34

Grimma Grin

LeQueen · 03/02/2011 10:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Witchofthenorth · 03/02/2011 10:37

Good point grimma good piont :o touché

Witchofthenorth · 03/02/2011 10:38

Oops that was of course meant to spell point, I have obviously been at that spell book for too long Wink

Hullygully · 03/02/2011 10:39

Le Q - are we going to have another horribly dense day..?

You can't lump herbalism in with all the other things that take your fancy, most modern medicines are synthetic versions of herbs and plants that have had their constituent parts analysed and synthesised.

Do try to think. Just a bit.

CoteDAzur · 03/02/2011 10:41

hullygully - re "the fact that pricking the body works means it isn't a placebo"

You missed the point a bit there.

If sticking any kind of needle at specific acupuncture points worked, yes, it could mean that acupuncture is effective.

However, (1) acupuncture doesn't seem to work any better than placebo however it is done, and (2) it seems to be just as effective (i.e. like placebo) when you just prick the skin with a toothpick or your own nail, simulating a needle sticking into skin & flesh (3) even when these pretend-pricks are done at random parts of the body, not where acupuncture mythology says they should be done.

Therefore, it is no better than placebo - i.e. the mind expecting less pain and hence feeling less pain.

BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 10:42

again herbalism is not the same as homeopathy. Herbalism is using herbs and natural remedies as medicine, if you think this has no basis in science ask yourself where you get things like aspirin from? Medicine is based on herbalism.

Just as wittering about homeopathy cures marks you out as a moron, so does not having the first clue about the differences between "alternative" and "complimentary" medicine.

BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 10:43

cote d'azur, the science disagrees with you. Unless you can tell us what journal your research into this was published?

LeQueen · 03/02/2011 10:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lenak · 03/02/2011 10:45

SGB & Cote - What about Dental Pain and Nausea?

There is accepted clinical empirical evidence that acupuncture (and / or acupressure) works for both of these.

This was enough for the National Institutes of Health to declare that it was time to take acupuncture seriously and that there needed to be more, better designed studies into its efficacy.

Acupuncture: A Clinical Review: Scientific Evidence for Clinical Application

stimulation for chemotherapy-induced nausea or vomiting.

Are you both declaring that you know more than the worlds foremost medical research agency?

GrimmaTheNome · 03/02/2011 10:45

Oh yes, herbalism can work. And unlike most of the other alternatives, because there really are active compounds in plants, it can make you seriously ill or kill you if done wrong!

Hullygully · 03/02/2011 10:46

hair-splitting?

You're just plain wrong.

But I'm not in the mood for you either, it's just too tiring, so I'll leave you to it.

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