to think that anynoe who believes in star signs is a complete numpty?

[bettybosseye]

I mean it's so clearly such a great stinking heap of horse shit, how can anyone actually believe it?
Another mum at playgroup today was telling me what kind of personality my 9 month old will have based solely on her star sign.
All pleasant enough stuff but she actually believed it.
What's wrong with people?

And if alternative medicine works, how come it doesn't ever seem to cure anything except vague feelings of not being very well?

Sorry - it' more specific that that. Vague feelling of not being very well in rich people.

Yes, you don't hear many RTA victims begging to be taken to a homeopathist rather than A&E. What would they do, ram you with a Dinky car?

Grimma

Lamorna - Re "I was merely offering to quickly see why you think that astrology is rubbish"

Because it is rubbish. There is no proof that it works. No theory as to how it is supposed to work, aside from vague mumblings about magnetism or light or gravity or something.

It is superstition.

Gong Xi Fa Cai and Wishing you all a happy Year of the Rabbit (which starts today)- can I throw the Chinese 12-year cycle of the animal zodiac into the mix?

The zodiac is taken very seriously by parents here (Singapore). Lots more babies are born in dragon years as it is the most powerful sign and traditionally dragons are expected to do well.

While I set no store by any astrology I do think acupuncture can be very powerful. I have heard of it being used as an alternative to a GA. Presumably when it is not piercing the skin the same spots on the body are being stimulated. I have had acupuncture and it is a very strange experience.

I thought everyone knew by now that acupuncture is placebo, like homeopathy's sugar pills.

Ancient Chinese medicine didn't allow dissection of human body, so their complete "understanding" of anatomy and physiology of the body was from observation of the world around them - 365 parts of the body for each day of the year, 12 vessels circulating blood & air because there are 12 rivers flowing into China, etc. All complete, utter, and demonstrably false myth-fest.

And as seeker said, time after time, it has been shown that people report great benefits from "acupuncture" when they are pricked in random parts of their bodies with toothpicks or even nurses' nails.

Placebo is a powerful thing. Our minds control our bodies in ways we are not yet completely aware of. When the mind thinks pain will diminish, it works the body so that the pain does diminish. There is nothing else to it.

Technically, acupuncture isn't placebo because the pricking does work. It doesn't have to be fancy needles etc, but the fact that pricking the body works means it isn't a placebo.

So am I right in thinking that general consensus of opinion in this thread is that any form of astrology/tarot/crystal/acupuncture/homeopathy and all their relations is utter tosh?

Oh and that if you do believe in it you are somehow stupid and not at the same level as all the "normal" people? Because I have to say, that is certainly how it sounds........

Don't knock tarot cards. The best thing about them is that if you don't like how they come out, you can do them again!

Pendulums are good. They work.

Yup. There is a pendulum in my house which will prove its effectiveness in precisely 13 minute's time.

Of course it should be rubbish CoteDAzure, I was of that opinion, but I happened to go along to a talk years ago, (someone arranged it in my NCT group and as I didn't get out much in the evenings at that time and she offered wine so I went!)I then got drawn into looking at it myself and it works to my satisfaction.
I was offering to tell people, at a very quick glance why they think it rubbish. Only 2 came forward and it was easy to find out why and they won't change their minds! My horoscope says that I am am gullible and very suseptible to flattery so I am an easy convert
I don't think you can group astrology with acupuncture so don't know why people are trying to!

I use tarot cards to focus my thoughts. They are a handy psycholigical tool for problem solving.

I don't believe they have predictive powers, but they are great for focussing and bringing to the fore sub-concious thoughts.

I use in them in the same way people might write a pros and cons list or keep a diary.

sorry susceptible

*psychological

I'm glad I'm not the only one not to proof read!

I certainly do not put astrology and acupuncture in the same league, however, other people have decided that through out this thread....

I am more concerned with and do not quite understand why believing in something that can not be scientifically proven makes you less intelligent than others........(I do prefer the word numpty :o)

Anyone mentioned tea-leaves yet? Just like tarot you can always do them again and the best thing about that is you get another cuppa in the process

Oh, crystals, well for sure they indeed have an important part to play in modern medicine.

Really, they do!

(hint: I am a crystallographer and write drug discovery software - what did you think I meant? )

lumping everything in together and deriding serious scientific research (that you haven't read) makes you look as idiotic as the people who will tell you that homeopathy can cure anything.

I am more concerned with and do not quite understand why believing in something that can not be scientifically proven makes you less intelligent than others........

I thought we'd covered this - religious people (intelligent ones, anyway)know their stuff isn't scientific.

But astrology and most alternative medicines are pseudoscience - they do make claims to have basis in fact. They should be - and are - falsifiable.

Which serious scientific research is that?