To be proud of being and wife and to want to be acknowledged as such?

[WriterofDreams]

I've read quite a few posts on MN from people who are annoyed, and quite rightly so, at being called "Mrs" when they're actually a Ms or Dr or some other title. I've actually found I have the opposite problem, where companies send me correspondence with the title "Ms" even though I put Mrs on any forms or letters I send. It also quite annoys me when I introduce my DH as my husband and people persist in calling him my partner. I chose to get married and being a wife is an important part of my identity that I would like to have acknowledged. I like being "Mrs DH's name" although I do draw the line at being called "Mrs Dh's first name Dh's second name," as I haven't actually changed my first name at all.

AIBU to expect companies and professionals to use the title I've actually selected rather than the PC catch-all one?

mordechaivanunu I liked your last point one people using personal experience. Which if I read it rightly is saying great, be proud to be a wife, but don't forget there is also the historical perspective, the wider implications, the global view of the things we say and decisions we make- just liking or disliking something doesn't take those away.
I love affordable clothes, doesn't mean there's no sweatshops...
I love being a wife (well, I don't particularly, but let's say..) but that soesn't mean that the institution of marriage is perfect, or that it isn't a repressive state to be in for many... or that everyone should aspire to it just because I do

And I thought this was a discussion about being annoyed when people do not use your correct title/name/artistformerlyknownasprince...........

Not too sure I want to wade into this new twist, since I rely on my husbands wage, actually like being married and being called mrs witchofthenorth........

Must tighten that chain at the sink :)

My post may be a tad outdated now lol, have managed to miss a few pages whilst "catching up":o

OP has the right to be called whatever title she wants. (I like being called Mrs too - I am married & feel I am due the manners to be addressed as I choose, for me it is not PC to call me MS). BUT......women should support each other's rights to be addressed as we want to be, to have the family units we choose to have, to make the decision to stay at home with our children or go out to a very satisfying full-time job. I have written before about if we all channel the energy we spend in judging each other & ripping each other apart, we would achieve so much more as womankind. Live & let live!

Yep, Im saying sure, insist on being called Mrs if you want, it's your right to be addressed as you wish, but don't kid yourself that your decisions don't have wider implications than for just you.

You can choose to care about this or not.

WriterofDreams: "For me the fact that I am a wife means that I have successfully created my own family, where I am loved and valued. I depend on my husband and my husband depends on me, and my identity is tied up with him because we are part of one unit that works together. I feel that's the way a good marriage should be. People's desperation not to depend on others and to maintain independence at all costs is what contributes to the breakdown of many relationships IMO. Part of the scariness and joy of a truly strong marriage is really opening yourself up to another person and allowing them to become part of you. The potential to get hurt is huge, but the rewards are worth it."

I think you've summed it up quite nicely in that para (and your last bit about vulnerability is, IMO why a lot of men apparently shrink back from working at their relationships when things get rocky). I also think some posters have read your OP, put 2 + 2 together, added a few numbers of their own and ended up with 18.

It's a reductionist way of thinking to say that marriage is merely a legal contract, and it generally means that the speaker hasn't thought very hard about what they're saying. It's the same as saying that having kids is no more than genetic procreation.

A good marriage is all the things that WriterofDreams said at the top of this post, and more.

Off to top of my head (adding to WoD's list):

• It's a commitment to support each other through ALL of life's ups and downs.
• It's a commitment to enabling each other to flourish, thrive, and become the very best version of oneself possible - this requires sacrifices on both sides, and provides huge benefits for both.

Being a wife does not give you the monopoly on this sort of relationship.

commitment and support not exclusive to marriage

I have posted a couple of times on this thread - when it was about 11 pages long and certainly don't have time to read it all. One of my posts was about doctor titles and the irritation of being addressed as a subordinate in their surgeries. This afternoon I remembered something that I think is really important.

DD was my 5th pg (2 dc). 4 pgs at major teaching hosp. 4th pg, ds2 27 weeks and sadly died a little later. Me - a mess: physically and emotionally - infections the lot. Went to GP needed fast referral and able to pay (all I wanted was to be pg again) referred me to female surgical consultant at said hosp - she was on hols - and the local private hosp called her Dr consultant - went back to GP - GP queried why surgical consultant called Dr and I queried it - it was because she wasn't married and didn't like the title Miss or Ms - I was actually told that. At the time I was in bits and the lovely receptionist said "but Mr consultant has just got back - he's awfully kind and even if he can't help he will point you to the right person. I had already made the decision that I was too screwed up to see a screwed up lady consultant becasue of her title. Saw said lovely man - he looked after me for what turned out to be the next 10 months - took me onto his NHS list at a neighbouring hosp - saw only him for the entire pg; he kept me sane and well and he visited the day after dd was born 51 weeks after DS2! I have a lot to thank a lady consultant for because she was hung up over her title and marital status.

None of the things mentioned above are exclusive to marriage. And not all marriages contain them.
They are factors in positive relationships, not exclusive to the married state.

onceamai so sorry to hear of your very sad loss.
I am not totally sure what you meant in your story of teh female dr though?

The first comment was in relation to speedy

why would you query it though ...I mean ,does it matter?

I think the point was most "doctors" work damned hard to become a consultant and then they go back to "Mr" or "Mrs". The point was, this female consultant did not want to be referred to as "Miss whatever" so she chose to be referred to a "Dr whatever" so her marital status didn't come into it.

As WoD suggested, we do live in an incredibly individualistic culture, which provides many benefits and also many disadvantages.

Sadly, every day I see countless examples of the disadvantages that stem from people simply not connecting on a human level in the UK (and here I'm referring to all forms of social interaction, not just romantic attachments).

Such as:

• People glaring if a young child steps in their way for a couple of seconds.

• People saying that cut-throat business decisions are 'not personal, it's just business'.

• People cutting guests' children out of wedding invitations.

• People thinking it's 'unprofessional' to talk about your personal life in a work context.

• People who march into a shop and march out again with their purchases, having barely looked at the shop assistant, let alone say hello and ask how they are.

• People saying that if you can make money from something, that is justification enough for doing it and to hell with the ramifications for anyone else.

• People thinking that grandparents should be kept at arms' length when they're elderly/ infirm, because, let's face it, it's inconvenient to have your parents move in (there are certain cases, such as dementia, which I would exempt from this).

• People assuming that a group of teenagers on a street corner must be troublemakers.

• Adults pushing in front of teens in a queue just because they can.

• People who can live next to someone for years without knocking on the door to say hello.

• Elderly people being treated as infants rather than given special status as our elders.

• People choosing to lose contact with parents and then arguing over their estate when they die.

• People avoiding talking to someone who's just been made redundant/ bereaved/ going through some kind of trauma, because they 'don't know what to say'.

• The high rates of teen pregnancy/ depression/ social isolation. It wouldn't surprise me if the UK and other individualistic cultures had a higher suicide rate than more 'dependent' cultures. We certainly have a number of hormonally-driven conditions here which other countries either don't experience at all or have in low numbers - PND, menopause symptoms (I remember from my psychology degree that women in some countries have next to no symptoms of menopause, and social factors have been held responsible).

• And, to come back to the subject of the thread, people relating badly in families, which leads to the high rates of relationship breakdown - which, of course, has a concomitant effect on children in those families.

The list is endless, and it's certainly not restricted to the UK, but based on the list above and on my travels, more than half the world would say we Brits are relationally inept.

These social problems are largely (or, in some cases, perhaps exclusively) a by-product of our individualistic culture. In our efforts to preserve our independence, we end up cutting each other off. What kind of world are we creating for ourselves and is that the sort of world we really want? I certainly don't, and in my corner of the globe I do my best to counteract it. Can't say I'm doing it flawlessly, but I try.

Speedy none of those negative aspects of our society can be directly linked with not being a 'wife' though.Your argument falls don as you are trying to attribute all society's ills to this and it doesn't stand up.

Well done you for getting married. Who wouldn't be proud of that? What an achievement, you must be soooo proud. Mrs whatever. Congrats. FFS.

Ladyofthemanor that seems reasonable, but then why did oncemai take such offence?

whist your ideas are worthy speedy,what have they do with marriage?

marriage doesn't imbue necessarily individuals with better,more empathic,sensitivities.marriage is an act individuals undertake,as is their preference.

Again...my statement about what makes a 'good marriage' was a direct response to those saying marriage is just a legal contract. Hope that clarifies things!

Oh, and, er, think I was a bit soapboxy in my last post (about our society), so apols if it comes across as such! Though I do very much mean what I said...just realised that it may have come across as preachy, which wasn't my intention.

scotmum - I'm saying in that huge post that relationship breakdown is part of the whole problem of lack of social connection. And nowhere have I said what you said in your second line, I think you're reading into my words stuff that isn't there.

noddy - no, I'm not. You have misunderstood my post.

Speedy I don't get your point ...being a wife doesn't automatically make you a more socially aware person

yes it was preachy and smug married

marriage!cure all social ills,boils,bunions,tennis elbow and gout.get some in ya

I didn't I can see the tentative link you are trying to make between marriage and people being less connected in general but if you really dissect it it makes no sense

Oh good grief, I know my post was long but if you really think I've been saying marriage is the cure-all for society's problems you clearly haven't read my post properly.