To be proud of being and wife and to want to be acknowledged as such?

[WriterofDreams]

I've read quite a few posts on MN from people who are annoyed, and quite rightly so, at being called "Mrs" when they're actually a Ms or Dr or some other title. I've actually found I have the opposite problem, where companies send me correspondence with the title "Ms" even though I put Mrs on any forms or letters I send. It also quite annoys me when I introduce my DH as my husband and people persist in calling him my partner. I chose to get married and being a wife is an important part of my identity that I would like to have acknowledged. I like being "Mrs DH's name" although I do draw the line at being called "Mrs Dh's first name Dh's second name," as I haven't actually changed my first name at all.

AIBU to expect companies and professionals to use the title I've actually selected rather than the PC catch-all one?

What rolandweary said. I don't WANT to be married, but I'm not daft and neither is my partner (at least about this! ) so we have got ourselves sorted re death/desertion etc. We are as legally protected as a couple as we would be if married. It's fine, you just have to make sure you make your commitment the slightly more hassle-y way if you really don't believe in marriage for yourselves (I LOVE going to other people's weddings and sharing their happiness in their important and special day).

And i've NEVER relied on my partner's wage for any period - I AM a wholly independent woman - and we share our child so if we split would still be sharing that cost too.

last post was to Dominatrix

marantha - what are you saying now? That a woman who lives with a man and brings up children while he supports the family financially has no right to view herself as independent and might as well just submit to marriage?

no wonder you don't find marriage objectionable, if that is the level of respect you afford other women.

Both statements are true. Marriage is indisputably historically and culturally patriarchal in nature and to do with male control of female sexuality and childbearing. Don't forget it was only in 1992 that rape in marriage was finally recognised as a crime.

However, marriage does confer rights that give more protection should things go wrong through death or divorce. Particularly important for lower earners or SAHPs.

I think the worst of all worlds is when people drift along, often with the bloke saying 'oh, we'll get married at some point,' the kids taking his name because the woman assumes they will get married and she'll get the same name and then it turns out the bloke really has no intention of getting married and pisses off with someone else. Or dies. And then the woman really is in the schtuck.

Oh, and if you aren't married, you can make all the arrangements you like, you'll still get stung for inheritance tax.

rolandweary. Well anybody who relies on somebody else for money is not independent, so if they are going to be dependent they may as well take part in a ceremony that would give them some rights should their breadwinner desert them.
Just that I find it laughable when a woman refuses to marry because she would lose her 'independence' when she's relying on man for money. Sorry, but she has already lost it.

As catnap says you can have the same rights legally with a lot less to do and expense than a wedding should you wish.We do.I also own property in my name have savings etc.My dp did support me financially while ds was very young as he is his son too and one of us wanted to be at home full time,we chose me .Just as when a house i renovated made a profit it was his profit too.

but the father is equally dependent on his children's mother - it would cost him a fortune to have his children cared for and brought up by paid staff

the idea is that everyone contributes in the best way they can, in a manner that suits them and meets everybody's needs

it's called a "family", I think

Yes its called having a mutual relationship in my house

Yes and marriage is ideally suited to those who want a family as it offers certain rights and protections.

I think it sucks personally

Just dipped in and out and see at the end here that marantha appears to be saying that feminists shouldn't have children unless they are independently wealthy.

How bizarre.

You can get those rights and protections without the big dress and the seating plan fiasco

only marriage sorts out the inheritance tax issues!

but finances aside, i find marriage liberating, certainly not the other way around. marriage done properly is like that.

and like the OP i am proud to be married, yes proud, particularly when i read/hear things that are anti-marriage.

No, I am not saying that women should not have children if not independently wealthy, I am saying that if a woman is going to form a family unit she may as well get married because it (marriage) is designed for family life.

I also don't care about historical background; it's what marriage is about NOW that matters.

Ha ha ha that LeQ believes her marriage is very personal and she feels no need to publicise it to others (or whatever she did say, but along those lines) in all my years on MN there has never been a more tirsomely repetitive shouter of 'look at my lovely husband, we have a lovely house too.'

despite I'm sure there being many of us with both lovely DHs and houses.

I personally find it very odd and those who think an added wink on the end of her self promotion makes it ironic are rather misguided on irony.

On the OP: I'm married, but have kept my maiden name and use Ms. for work, but do use Mrs DH's name for family/kid stuff. I like the fact that it identifies us as a family unit, but dislike the fact it's his name we use. We did discuss this the other night and Dh said 'oh I'd have taken your name instead' and I had to remind him that his traditional self 12years ago baulked at this suggestion.

But at least 12years later I've made him he is more of a feminist.

I do strongly think however that when at work, in my highly paid professional job that you need extensive post graduate qualifications for (oh look I'm channelling LeQ and being ironic) no one should need to know my marital status at all. It's entirely irrelevant.

I knew someone would say that rolandweary but actually he wouldn't mind doing it, we have discussed it. He even suggested he wear an engagement ring (we are actually engaged at present and buying our rings in Easter when we make it official to the world) and he will be. We have a very equal relationship, which is a rarity and I feel very lucky. He is very aware of how difficult it is for women and it is something I really love about him. He wants everyone to know our relationship is one of equals. Enough about me though

I do agree that couples are not seen a legitimate unless they are married, especially legally. Thats a big reason for my DP and I getting married. Apart from the fact that we love each other and want everyone to know, we want everything to be ok legally. We should though be pushing for a society where people do not have to be married to have a socially recognised union.

Dominatrix

The institution of marriage was founded on a system of keeping wealth between families of equal importance. And so women from such families were traded as insurance of this very purpose, just like animal stock.

Read up on the history of marraige please. It is not "rubbish" it is historical fact! And it is still going on all over the world today. That is why people used to (and in some parts of the world still do) get married as children or were betrothed as children. They had no say in the situation and even in situations where the man had a say, the woman almost always had none. That is why the system of dowry is there, it was trading money and possesion for the right to own a woman. It is about ownership primarily, the romanticised notion of marriage came much MUCH later in history. Just read some Jane Austen for goodness sake, or better yet read about her life.

What do you suggest then, LDNmummy? People would still have to sign some kind of formal declaration of couplehood (I would not be happy with the alternative i.e. the state deciding for me if I am in a couple or not- that!) wouldn't they? And perhaps they'd like to have a little celebration while they're at it- perhaps a nice dress for the women to wear and a nice suit for the male. How about inviting some friends and having a meal, too...
Perhaps some kind of symbolic jewellery-swapping would be nice? Or a little holiday after the signing of the formal declaration?

I'm married but wouldn't say I'm proud to be a Mrs. Mostly because I'm not a Mrs - I don't use that style and kept my own name anyway so if someone calls me Mrs it sounds like my Gran - but also because it would be weird to be proud of being married. Being married doesn't make you better than anyone else.

Getting married was lovely and being married to dh has its good points, I must admit, but the idea that I should be proud to be a married woman is just very odd indeed.

I love being a mrs and also proud to be a wife, I have been watching this thread since yesterday and I think you should be able to be proud of whatever you want to be proud of... Lots of people on here seem extremely bitter that they aren't "wives" but never mind.

In this household I own the house and pay the mortgage, the house is in my name, since i bought my ex boyfriend out of the mortgage at 19, my husband contributed as soon as he moved in obviously I have not lost my identity as an independent women but I do love having that link to my husband and he feels the same about me.

'Lots of people on here seem extremely bitter that they aren't "wives" but never mind'

and you base that assumption on what?

Dominatrix

Oh and about me not having much of an identity, my name is tied in greatly with my culture, it denotes what tribal grouping I come from on my fathers side for many generations back and my other names denote the same thing on my mothers. They show where my cutural heritage lies and that is a MASSIVE part of my identity. It also means a way for people of my culture to identify me and that is extremely important, I was even named after a family member who was named after someone before her (a very strong tradition in my family that still goes on). In my family and my parent's cultures (I am of mixed heritage) your name holds extreme importance. I will also be picking names for my children based on this. My husbands name is also important as we will now become our own family and I will take it on. My identity is very strong, THAT is why it is important to keep hold of my name, because it is very much tied into it. My children will know thier cultural heritage through thier names as much as the colour of thier skin or the languages they speak.