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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that our expectations of babies behaviour in this country are too high?

513 replies

Tryharder · 30/01/2011 11:50

There seems to have been a lot of threads around at the moment along the lines of "my baby is 5 weeks old and still won't sleep through the night" and "my baby won't go 4 hours between feeds, is she just greedy" or "my baby wants to be picked up a lot - is she just manipulative?" You get the picture....

Have just read a post about someone who left a very young baby to cry it out (don't ask me to link) and they are all smug about it because "it worked".

It makes me so cross and sad for the babies concerned who are subject to draconian regimes. Why are we so negative about babies in this country and so determined from Day one to impose on them a routine that makes our lives convenient, not theirs.

I know I will be flamed Sad.

OP posts:
felicity10 · 30/01/2011 22:05

juleswill Or having to do a quick feed 'on the go' rather than knowing when the baby is likely to be hungry and scheduling ample time to have a nice long and satisfying feed, in a comfortable environment.

Can we not be quite so judgy pants on how other's do things. Just because some may not use strict routine's doesn't mean they actually miss things like proper time to feed when out! Perhaps you didn't mean it like that, but does sound quite a harsh assumption. Confused

dietcokeandwine Everyone is different, every baby is different, and what works for one family might not work for another. When are we all going to stop judging everyone else and just live and let live?

Ahh, a voice of reason.

harverina · 30/01/2011 22:06

YANBU - but I think there can be a happy medium in most cases. I have a sctrict bedtime routine for my DD as I want her to make the distinction between night and day. I also know that if she isn't in bed by 8pm she gets overtired. I read her cues to determine the routine. I still follow my DD's cues. At 10 months old she is still fed on demand and she is never left to cry. If she wakens in the night and is hungry I feed her.

There is nothing wrong with some sort of routine IMO - I think that most babies respond well to routine, as do toddlers and older children.

I'm not a huge fan of strict routines like Gina Ford, but I agree wirh Juleswill - most parents can usually anticipate when their DC will need to be fed/changed/naptimes and we can plan accordingly. I can usually anticipate when my DD will start to get tired so I encourage her to settle down for a nap rather than let her get over tired. This is to help my DD, not to suit me.

Babies cannot be manipulative though. I hate it when people tell me to ignore my DD when she cries, or to not pick her up during the night as she will know that if she cries I will pick her up...I WANT MY DD TO KNOW THAT IF SHE CRIES I WILL PICK HER UP FGS! I dont want her to think she will be ignored.

Agree with others who say that there are not only 2 types of parenting...I listen to my DD's cues, I breastfeed, I feed on demand, I respond to her cries by cuddling her. But I don't use a sling and I don't co sleep.

porcamiseria · 30/01/2011 22:10

well said dietcoke

lovemysleep · 30/01/2011 22:11

Routine worked for me and my dd, but it wasn't a strictly prescribed one - we kind of found our feet together, and she slept thorough by about 5-6 months, by herself.

I found Gina Ford far too rigid, but it did help to try to understand the whole feeding and sleeping thing a little - and dd NEVER went 4 hours between feeds whilst BF - she was every 2-3 hours, so that was pretty relentless.

I could never co-sleep with a baby, as I'd never relax for fear of squishing them - not that it bothers me if other people choose to do it. She was close enough in the moses basket, next to the bed, and she went in her cot in her own room at 3 months (ish), and I think that helped improve her sleep patterns too. Incidentally, I have never minded her coming in my bed since she wanted to at around 2. My DH works away, and DD is now 5, and she'll probably crawl into my bed a few nights a week, which I love!

I missed out on alot of baby groups as I didn't want to disrupt DD routine - it was lonely at times, but it was worth it. I am dreadful with very little sleep - hence my name! - so it worked for us as a family. I would do it again too,although my next one is going to have to fit in with my 5 year old.

I've also seen my SIL not establish a routine, and she's now got a 2.5 year old who sleeps terribly, does the whole vomitting on demand thing to create maximum disruption! I think that they've allowed her to rule the roost - she went back to work when DD was a year old, and they still have her up at 9.30 at night!!! To me, that just doesn't seem like you are using your common sense and thinking about having to get your child up at 7am - unless, of course, you don't mind not having any time to yourself, or with your DH. I know that suits some, and I guess some kids do need less sleep.

I don't believe for one minute that small babies can manipulate - it's a ridiculous concept.

At the end of the day, we all should do what feels right for us, but it must also be practical and workable for everyday life.

FabbyChic · 30/01/2011 22:12

Psychologists have been researching babies for years.

It is NOT healthy to leave a baby to cry it out it can cause personality problems later on in life.

porcamiseria · 30/01/2011 22:17

lovemysleep

its great that you did what works for you, BUT you sound very judgy about your SIL, a tad smug dare I say....can you only enjoy your routine by disparaging those that dont have one??????

just feeding that back.......

juleswill · 30/01/2011 22:18

felicity10 I wasn't meaning to be 'judgypants' - just counteracting some of the judgypants baby-led arguments that anyone who has a routine is evil!

I found feeding to a schedule less stressful than feeding a flappy baby, intent on exposing me, on the go in the middle of a shopping centre! I also found he slept much better and longer in his own bed, rather than in the pram or carseat, and therefore deduce it must be more comfortable! I can sleep cuddled up to my husband or in the car, but I ultimately I prefer my own bed and can only assume that it's the same for my DS!

Having said that, I do think the books can make people feel hopelessly inadequate.

felicity10 · 30/01/2011 22:22

juleswill fair enough. To be honest, I sleep much better with no one in the bed making a star shape - but alas, DH and DD also feel the same!

Unwind · 30/01/2011 22:23

"It is NOT healthy to leave a baby to cry it out it can cause personality problems later on in life."

Can you cite any evidence for that, or is it just nasty nonsense made up to make those who have had to resort to it feel miserable?

and no, Margot Sutherland is not a neuroscientist, and Romanian babies in orphanages are not typical examples

jump to your babies' every whimper as I did, by all means, but quit tormenting those who are having, or had, a harder time than you

SparkleSoiree · 30/01/2011 22:24

YADNBU.

Unwind · 30/01/2011 22:31

I really hate the viciousness of lies like FabbyChic's above.

She knows vulnerable mothers will be reading this.

porcamiseria · 30/01/2011 22:33

DS1, did the strictest ever routine, missed out on stuff, and killed myself trying to get him to nap and sleep at the "right time"

DS2, waaaaay more relaxed, a routine-lite

and both not great at sleeping, so there you go!

SparkleSoiree · 30/01/2011 22:33

Unwind I have no idea whether it is a lie or truth - Fabbychic have you got a link for evidence that proves it? I have heard this said a lot so would be interested to see if it is true.

FabbyChic · 30/01/2011 22:34

Unwind

It is not a lie, I study Psychology, if you want some authors to research happy to give you the names so you can look them up.

Unwind · 30/01/2011 22:36

Brilliant - just provide links to the academic papers in respected journals.

That shouldn't be hard for you to do, and you'll have supported your point.

Go on.

porcamiseria · 30/01/2011 22:37

my mum always left me to cry it out, I am fine. those 70s parents, they fucked us up! it makes me laugh, she always says "oh you never woke up" err no, you just had us on a different floor mum!!!!

Dancergirl · 30/01/2011 22:38

YANBU

Babies are MEANT to wake at night, to eat at night, to want lots of cuddles. I would be more worried about a baby that didn't tbh.

MamaMary · 30/01/2011 22:43

Agree with Juleswill that babies like their cots! Mine absolutely loves hers.

Hate the smug assumption that 'baby-wearing' and co-sleeping is the best form of parenting. It's not. It works well for some, and does not work at all for others (I, for one, would not get any decent sleep if I co-slept and therefore would not be a great mother. And as I said, my DD sleeps well in her own cot).

Fabby Chic, I fear your statement is grossly exaggerated and very mis-leading Hmm

pigletmania · 30/01/2011 22:44

Leaving a baby to cry it out for long periods of time releases the stress hormone in their bodies leading to physiological problems. There is research on it, google it.

bebespain · 30/01/2011 22:47

YANBU but YABU to think it´s just "in this country"
I live in Spain and my Spanish inlaws are at their wit´s end because I co-sleep with DS2 (20 months) Oh and let´s not mention the fact that I pick him up far too often and the more I do it the more he wants crap and how I am going to spoil him, if I haven´t already done so etc, etc... I could go on but I think you probably get the idea Grin

MamaMary · 30/01/2011 22:47

Pigletmania, your statement is much more moderate and sensible. It is not what Fabby Chic said.

LadyBiscuit · 30/01/2011 22:47

LMGTFY

SparkleSoiree · 30/01/2011 22:47

Fabbychi - I think the protocol is for supporting evidence to be provided alongside a statement of fact if it causes controversy. Surely you must have a link to a very 'easy to read' piece of study for us to read??

Unwind · 30/01/2011 22:49

Yes, if you use google, you will come up with all kinds of nonsense. Try the medical journals. Try any reputable source, no evidence.

So, can you point us towards any real evidence of these "physiological problems"?

or is it just something you like to believe

Hmm
LadyBiscuit · 30/01/2011 22:50

And another