To tell my nanny she can't take days of for her wedding.

[Foreverondiet]

Have had same nanny for several years and each year she does some sort of retreat thing in June, 2 weeks. She is allowed 2 weeks holiday when she chooses and the rest when we choose (usually another 4 weeks worth).

Anyway she tells me she is getting married.... I think nothing of it until cleaner says did you know it was in September this year. I ask the nanny and she said, yes she was thinking she's take some unpaid leave. Try to push how much she needs, she wants another couple of weeks. I suggested maybe she wouldn't do the retreat this year but she was almost in tears and said she couldn't believe I wouldn't give her time of for getting married (she's going back home to eastern Europe to get married).

I asked her why she thought it would be ok, as I don't have enough holiday to cover it because we have already committed to go away with DH's parents. And yes I can take unpaid parental leave but this would be very expensive, and leave my boss being a bit annoyed with me.

The reason we have a nanny is that I have 3 DC, aged 4,7 and 9 months and its the only way I can work (full day nursery/childminder for baby plus after school would cost almost the same and this way she looks after older DC if they are ill or during school holidays).

Her wedding is on a Saturday and she works for me Mon/Tues and Thurs so its not as if she HAS to take time off, and if it really was that important to her why does she not cancel the retreat?

It's not true at all that there's no-one to cover for a nanny, any more than there's no-one to cover for a receptionist or even a theatre nurse. There are agencies for everything.

'People respond to nanny management threads as if everyone who employs a nanny behaves like a slave owner...' - there was never a time during my dad's childhood when the family didn't have domestic staff including a governess, nursery maids, and kitchen maids. None were treated like indentured servants, more like valued members of the household, with an attempt made to respect their lives and personal needs and pitch in as needed to cover for anyone who couldn't be there for any given reason. The governess was there for decades at granny's side and later went on to work for one of my aunts - the secret to keeping really good staff is respect and the acknowledgement deep in your heart that human beings have lives outside of what you employ them for.

When you have domestic employees, it's all about relationships - relationships between the children and those who take care of them, relationships between the mother and her surrogate(s), and the intertwining of lives that goes on is different altogether from the relationships between employers and employees in other areas. Managing those relationships is not simply a matter of looking up your contract and saying, 'This is what you signed and I'm going to hold you to it regardless'.

Hang on a second, posie, she has chosen her own holiday dates! She chose the date for her June holiday. I think you are being a bit unfair.

mathanxiety - can you let me know the name of one of those agencies who will allow you to employ someone for two weeks. Like, I said I am genuinely interested as I have my own childcare issue in August.

@ Posy. Back to the 'staff issue' rather than the professional responsibility of an employee.

Mathsanxiety, so as supply agencies are everywhere I guess teachers should be allowed to take two weeks mid term to get married after all, there's always cover.

Her June holiday is a retreat, possibly religious?

The June holiday has been a fixture in the nanny's life for years. The other two weeks that the nanny must be idle for are at the dictate of the OP, who refuses to budge on those dates. This woman is asking for a total of six days unpaid leave for a major life event.

4 weeks holiday is fucking disgrace.

Chaya- nanny agencies usually offer an emergency Nanny service.

Alteratively none of the lcoal ones would touch us (don;t do SN_ think I could challenge under DDA but don;t need hassle tbh) and I found one on Gumtree; alternatively again my sister's nursery closes for August now and many of the staff take on work from the famillies.

HTH

It is a Buddhist retreat and the OP's nanny is Catholic. Lots of people go on Bud retreats just for the experience and relaxation. It is clearly not for religious observance.

Professional responsibility? Really? She is getting married, not going skiing.

The self importance of some posters, monty, is incredible.

Sitters, a national agency would be able to help.

Let's try the alternative view :

AIBU? I'm a Nanny and I get 4 wks holiday. I can choose 2 of those weeks, and my employer decides the other. She works long hours, and has already booked a holiday with her ILs. However, I want to get married in September, abroad, and have offered to take this unpaid. I've already used my two weeks I choose for a retreat I go on every year with my gf. (It's Buddhist and I'm Catholic fyi)
She's saying no, what do you think?

Am wondering if OP has asked Nanny the question 'why'?

perhaps Buddhist retreat ahs some special meaning- perhaps her DF can;t get time off his own work in June (tourism for example? Heck, maybe even he is a teacher?)

Our school has allowed teahcers to take wedding leave outside holidays but only in exceptional circs- when one was marrying someone who worked away for teh tourist season, and when one was PG (very religious Head.....)

Well, DH is a lawyer and this has always meant difficulties surrounding holidays as they simply needed to fit in with cases.

Couple this with the fact that I am a teacher and it makes finding weeks together sometimes difficult.

I'd like to see Dh's employers face if he used all his holiday then asked for more, even unpaid. Or mine, as I said, if I fancied going away in March.

the Buddhist- catholic thing is a red herring: the Buddhist group I know quite well does plenty of multifaith events.

They are usually multi faith. People of various or no faith go for relaxation and meditation.

You know what it's none of anyone's business what the retreat is all about, it could be the only way the nanny holds herself together or can relax. She's allowed a life, and one that is just as important the egocentric OP.

"It is a Buddhist retreat and the OP's nanny is Catholic"

Plenty of Catholics are so in name only; it's just as likely the nanny is, in fact, a Buddhist but maintains a Catholic social identity. I know more than one sworn atheist who readily own up to being Catholic in heritage, and who have got married in church to please family, because family is important to them.

If going on an annual Buddhist retreat is her long-standing religious practice, and if the OP has always allowed it in the past, then the OP may be in legal hot water on the grounds of religious discrimination if she insists she give up the retreat.

Posie I'm getting married next year. I work. I wouldn't dream of using up all my annual leave and then expecting another 2 weeks from my employer to get married, without even discussing it with them.

Yes, professional responsibility. Courtesy and consideration go both ways. The nanny should use her 2 flexible weeks for the wedding - surely if it's that important for the OP to bend over backwards to accommodate the wedding, then the nanny should be willing to make compromises as well?

Well I'm sure your DH earns more than £15 per hour.

I think that if you are a nanny you should be able to take your holiday on discussion with your employer and not have to wait for her to fix her holidays and then tell you.
A teacher hasn't the option of holidays of her choice, but she can go on a web site and see when the holidays are going to fall and book well in advance. If I was a nanny I wouldn't mind working to employers convenience, but only if she is going to work it out at least a year in advance and tell me now for 2012. If she can't do that I think it is quite reasonable to take unpaid leave.
I wouldn't have thought it was difficult for her to get another job if the employer doesn't like it.

Monty - are you really trying to suggest that no teacher has ever had time off during term time for any reason? There are no supply teachers? The teaching analogy is spurious in the extreme because of the 13 weeks off that teachers get every year. In their case it is not unreasonable to expect them to arrange weddings during their time out of school. For anyone else, unpaid leave with plenty of advance notice, to have a wedding when presumably the family can be present, when churches etc., are available, is not one bit unreasonable.

Other posters have mentioned agencies back in the thread. Yes, you can hire people for two weeks, or six days over two weeks. The reason some agencies are called 'temp agencies' is because they supply temporary workers to cover for the full timers. They exist because there's a need for them. People do take time off work, and the wheels of industry do not grind to a halt because of this. Most office managers simply pick up the phone and call the usual temp agency they deal with and ask for their usual sort of candidate for a specific number of days or weeks. The economy is not exactly booming and I would be willing to bet the farm that there are plenty of nannies or children's nurses or even supply teachers between jobs who would be available for those six days. The nanny herself may even have a friend who is not going to the wedding who could step in. The idea that there is absolutely no-one available and employable for those six days is ludicrous.

I can't be arsed with this.

OP you sound very spoilt.

Grumpy - if OP 'works long hours' it follows that the nanny works long hours. Why do only OP's hours matter in your version?