To tell my nanny she can't take days of for her wedding.

[Foreverondiet]

Have had same nanny for several years and each year she does some sort of retreat thing in June, 2 weeks. She is allowed 2 weeks holiday when she chooses and the rest when we choose (usually another 4 weeks worth).

Anyway she tells me she is getting married.... I think nothing of it until cleaner says did you know it was in September this year. I ask the nanny and she said, yes she was thinking she's take some unpaid leave. Try to push how much she needs, she wants another couple of weeks. I suggested maybe she wouldn't do the retreat this year but she was almost in tears and said she couldn't believe I wouldn't give her time of for getting married (she's going back home to eastern Europe to get married).

I asked her why she thought it would be ok, as I don't have enough holiday to cover it because we have already committed to go away with DH's parents. And yes I can take unpaid parental leave but this would be very expensive, and leave my boss being a bit annoyed with me.

The reason we have a nanny is that I have 3 DC, aged 4,7 and 9 months and its the only way I can work (full day nursery/childminder for baby plus after school would cost almost the same and this way she looks after older DC if they are ill or during school holidays).

Her wedding is on a Saturday and she works for me Mon/Tues and Thurs so its not as if she HAS to take time off, and if it really was that important to her why does she not cancel the retreat?

Well just because you want to know whether you're being unreasonable doesn't mean people are well placed to tell you - any more than if you ask the proverbial "do you think I'm pregnant?"

But I think what I meant to say was that I cannot fathom how people who have harshly condemned the OP managed to arrive so confidently at such extreme conclusions.

You are being hideous.

A girl who worked for DH decided to get married (they'd been together years, just decided to do it quickly) and she had already taken all her holiday leave that year. DH gave her an extra two weeks off at great inconvenience to him. She was a great girl, great member of staff and he didn't want to lose her. Oh, and because he's nice and treats his staff well. You sound dreadful.

Also she is not Polish! Not sure where that came from.

Seems a shame to lose someone who has worked for you for 6 years and presumably has a good relationship with your kids. How about: Temp nanny - I enquired at some agencies when I had a short term contract and they were quite willing to provide one for a short period. Childminder? Nursery - may have spare places for a couple of weeks in September as this is prime holiday time. Do you have a partner who can take any leave?

'It is NOT unusual for a nanny though, it is standard practice. As Sprogger said, effectively the employer and the employee take their holiday at the same time. The 50/50 split is the fairest way I can see to ensure that both parties are able to at least have some holiday at a time which is convenient to them. The alternative is that the employer and her family fits their life around the life of the employee, which is hardly usual or fair either. '

But it is completely disingenuous to complain that the nanny wants extra time off for her wedding after having her so-called "four weeks" if two of those four weeks are at a time of the OP's choosing. Have a split of the holiday time, but don't get on your high horse because your dictated time is not a good time for your employee's wedding.

If this nanny only works three days a week for the OP, it's possible she works the other four days somewhere else and this may be the only time available for her to take off from her other job too - it's not unusual for single and childless young women from Eastern Europe to work seven days a week ime. Maybe this is how she can afford the unpaid leave? If she can afford it it's because she is smart with her money, works seven days a week, and will be staying in her own home when she goes back to Poland or wherever, not because she came from money.

Weddings are arranged for a time when the families of the bride and groom are all or mostly all available to be there. If this woman's family or her fiancé's are in farming, then summer is out for a wedding. Early autumn after harvest would be the best time. Any Polish nannies I knew in the US who got married back in Poland had all sorts of intricate family stuff to deal with, including the timing of the harvest, the closing of factories where relatives worked for their annual break, the availability of churches and hotels and charter flights to Split, etc. And even in the land where one week's annual holiday is the norm (The 'Home of the Free') employers didn't grumble at a nanny's wedding plans or the prospect of having to find someone else for extra holiday.

I think what Bonsoir mentioned is pertinent here - the idea that a nanny is not devoting 150% of her energy to the children if she tries to claim a personal life is one that threatens some employers of nannies. Maybe this is at the root of the shock and horror the OP is experiencing.

I'm surprised you're prepared to let her go after 6 years of her working for you.
She obviously knows and cares for your DC well.
I think you'll be cutting of your nose to spite your face.
Good child carers are hard to come by.

And won't your DC be upset to lose her?

I don't understand how you can be annoyed that she hasn't pre-checked the dates when it is 8 months away! Most employers would never require that amount of notice. Please, you do sound like you can be quite a reasonable person, try and see if from her point of view and have a heart eh?

OP - you pretty much lost your audience the moment you typed 'I have a nanny'. Any of the following within an opening OP are likely to result in total condemnation :

DH is a HR taxpayer and we cannot afford our mortgage

We get no benefits except CHB and I don't know how I will pay for X when that goes in 2013

I have to drive the dcs to school to get to work on time

My neighbour is on benefits and can afford a holiday

Ds is at a private prep and we are worried about the fees

Etc Etc

I'm sorry, but YABU, it's her wedding for Pete's sake. Have a flipping heart.

September is ages away, it gives you plenty of time to arrange cover for a week.

Not read this through, but I think you are worrying over nothing. You have eight months to find someone to cover for you for that fortnight. We're in a recession, I'm sure you can find a suitable self-employed person, who needs some extra money.

So should it be the same for teachers? Or are we just ignoring that?

I don't think the analogies with other employers letting their employees take extra time of for a wedding, such as megatron's wonderful husband, are apt. In other employment situations other members of staff can cover for each other. With a nanny they are the sole employee and there is noone to cover for them. Thus you are placed in a much more difficult situation when they ask for extra leave.

YANBU

YANBU - Weddings don't have some sort of '4 aces trumps all' status!

How many posters are in jobs where you can just tell an employer that you will be off for 2 weeks of your choice? ALL jobs have restrictions about when leave can be taken, and it is usual to consult with and discuss with an employer before making arrangements.

She has been extremely unprofessional - she should have discussed it with you before booking it, and especially while you could have chosen to be flexible with your own hol arrangements so before you booked your advance arrangements. Of course it would have been reasonable for you to do what you could to be flexible around her, but the purpose of employing a nanny isn't to employ a series of childcarers except in an emergency.

People respond to nanny management threads as if everyone who employs a nanny behaves like a slave owner.

I wouldn't dream of confirming two weeks off work outside my normal hol allowance or usual hol times without discussing it with my employer, and maybe having a contingency plan in place to offer.

Chaya there has to be someone tocover for your / whoevers Nanny becuase otherwise they get sick or pregnant (shock) or have childcare issues themselves and you end up in big trouble; one Nanny does not a watertight childcare provision make.

Blu we don't know if she has been unprofessional: she may well have planned to given her (3? what my sister always had) months notice to leave in advance but the cleaner intervened unwittingly and now she thinks if she explains OP will just find someone much sooner and she will lose out on several months wages.

Absolutely impossible to know.

I agree with blu.

Imagine if your child's nursery just decided to close for two extra weeks so the staff could all go away somewhere. And told you about it once it was all booked. I reckon people would be pretty annoyed about that. No different in my book.

agree tone of OP is high handed and mad

however, and i havent read all 713 responses, if i understand correctly, OP has no problem with her taking 2 weeks off as per their agreement with pay but thinks it reasonable that this forms their agreed "2 weeks of the nannys choosing".

i genuinely dont think that this is that unreasonable in itself ( the suggestion that she can get married on a saturday and be back on monday is where it goes a bit mad).

OP why not sit down with nanny and plan out the holiday plans for this year and come up with something you can both live with.
Really if you are going to sack her for this( based on what others have said) you should be careful about your reasons for doing so- make sure they are legal! and good luck finding someone else who will not fall pregnant or want to get married etc etc

No Chaya, if they gave me 8 MONTHS notice, and didn't expect me to pay for those 2 weeks, I wouldn't be annoyed, I'd make alternative arrangements. Its called life. When you have children you can't rely on just one form of childcare, you have to have back ups.

Whew this thread is heated! My eyes are burning!

I think you need to decide whether you want to keep her or not. You say she's been an excellent nanny, and she's been with you for a long time. Good nannies are hard to find. If you want to keep her, give her the unpaid leave and find emergency cover for the two weeks she's away. It's her wedding; it's not just some random holiday, and it's a one-off. It's perfectly reasonable for her to ask for unpaid leave, and to have a reasonable expectation of getting it, too, as she would in most other jobs.

However, you are also well within your rights, and therefore NBU, to refuse the leave. . . IF you're fully prepared for her to walk away, and for you to have to find a new nanny.

You have to think about what's more important to you -- keeping a very good nanny of long-standing, or having to make other arrangements, possibly slightly more expensive ones, for two weeks.

I know what I would choose: keeping the nanny.

Chaya, that was my point earlier. If I had decided to get married on a Thursday in September and school had sent a letter home telling parents that school would close that day due to the fact that all staff will be at wedding there would be an outrage, regardless of how much notice.

Likewise if parents received a letter now saying their DC1's teacher will be getting married in Sept and will have the following 2wks off oh and their DC2's teacher will be getting married in Feb and will have 2wks off.

Can someone tell me how you make alternative arrangements?

Am genuinely interested. Is there some sort of emergency nanny service?

We live far far away from family and nursery is close for the whole of August so I have no idea who is going to look after DD during that time (I already use up all my leave during the April and xmas breaks). None of the childminders in our neighbour will take DD just for August and most don't work in August anyway.

The fact is, you're all asking the OP to see her nanny's wedding as vitally important yet the nanny herself is not willing to give up her June holiday to facilitate it.

Exactly, montysorry. I don't know why she can't just give up her June holiday.

Well, how dare she not discuss her wedding date with you!

You remind me of the expats out in china who think the nannies are servants.

People like you disgust me, putting your own inconvenience above someone's wedding and expecting them to do the same. Horrid, shame on you.

OP Can you choose your own holiday dates or do you work for a self important idiot too?