To tell my nanny she can't take days of for her wedding.

[Foreverondiet]

Have had same nanny for several years and each year she does some sort of retreat thing in June, 2 weeks. She is allowed 2 weeks holiday when she chooses and the rest when we choose (usually another 4 weeks worth).

Anyway she tells me she is getting married.... I think nothing of it until cleaner says did you know it was in September this year. I ask the nanny and she said, yes she was thinking she's take some unpaid leave. Try to push how much she needs, she wants another couple of weeks. I suggested maybe she wouldn't do the retreat this year but she was almost in tears and said she couldn't believe I wouldn't give her time of for getting married (she's going back home to eastern Europe to get married).

I asked her why she thought it would be ok, as I don't have enough holiday to cover it because we have already committed to go away with DH's parents. And yes I can take unpaid parental leave but this would be very expensive, and leave my boss being a bit annoyed with me.

The reason we have a nanny is that I have 3 DC, aged 4,7 and 9 months and its the only way I can work (full day nursery/childminder for baby plus after school would cost almost the same and this way she looks after older DC if they are ill or during school holidays).

Her wedding is on a Saturday and she works for me Mon/Tues and Thurs so its not as if she HAS to take time off, and if it really was that important to her why does she not cancel the retreat?

I've asked that question 3 times already Dittany, no answer.

YABVU

I suspect if you can afford a nanny than you can also afford to take some unpaid leave yourself.

you tight arsed misery

Generally nannies are not badly paid - my nannies were paid roughly the same as a nurse or junior school teacher. Compared to nursery nurses, they are particularly well paid.

They are professionals, who have freely chosen to work in childcare. Not everyone chooses their career for the money. As a professional, she should behave in a professional manner. And she is not.

The fact that this nanny is Eastern European is a red herring, and doesn't make her a down-trodden serf.

Here's my summary.

A valued employee has made an arrangement for an important one-off event, that requires her to take two weeks' leave. She hasn't discussed this upfront with her employer but has made the arrangement without the employer knowing.

Within the terms of her contract, she's entitled to statutory leave, two weeks of which she can take at a time of her choice. She has already used up these two weeks for a prior arrangement, which she is unwilling to cancel.

Instead, she has proposed taking an additional two weeks' leave unpaid. While this reduce the upfront cost on her employer, it is still problematic: the employer is dependent on the employee for essential services and would need to spend time and possibly extra money finding temporary cover in order to accommodate the employee's request.

The employee's arrangement cannot now be moved. While the employer is under no obligation to grant the request, at some cost to herself, the employee is valued and difficult to replace. Thus it's a tricky decision. The employer has to choose between accepting the fait accompli and the management overhead of finding temporary cover, or risking damaging the working relationship. There is a further risk of even greater management overhead if the employee leave and the employer needs to find and train a replacement.

Because the arrangement is a wedding, the employee is a nanny, and some people on MN approve of weddings and disapprove of people with nannies, the thread discussing this tricky but not insoluble employment difficulty is 27 pages long.

'that is quite different to deliberately planning my wedding outside my holiday time just because I've used my holiday time up for something else.'

OK, 'deliberately planning' aside (how else do you plan a wedding? Carelessly?) the nanny gets 4 weeks off every year but up to now the arrangement has been that she must take two of those weeks when the family dictates, like it or lump it. She has technically only used up half of her holiday with her two week retreat.

Butterbur - I was one of the people who said just get a temp nanny and I was not implying that she shoudl just leave her children with just anyone. She has 8 months to look into lots of options, and if the nanny is a good one then she should be OK to do it. For example - nanny shares for a few weeks, does the nany have any friends that the woman knows/ children know who could help. I cant remember f OP said how long nanny woudl be off but there really are lots of options she could look at. if its 2 weeks thats 10 days... so for EXAMPLE - Op could take 2 days off, OPDH could take two off, OP parents could take off two days, nanny share for 2 days and that just leaves 2 more and as the OP works full time and has enoguh money to have a nanny and a cleaner I am sure she is very intelligent and able to work out what to do for 2 more days. It doesnt have to be as difficult as your making out. I ahve 2 younger than school children and work full time (I dont have a nanny) and use a childminder and manage to make arrangements for "unusal" circumstances, why cnat OP just do that?

OMG get another babysitter how unreasonable are you. Let her enjoy her once in a lifetime day and time off for it, I cant believe you would even consider not letting her. So selfish!!!

I can't quite believe this. OP YABVU and I wouldn't be surprised if your nanny quits over this and finds a more considerate employer.

FWIW we've had a nanny for a year and it's not as simple as the usual employer/employee relationship. She is part of the family. If she announced she was getting married I would be overjoyed for her and make it as easy for her as possible to take time off when she wanted.

OP you are not being unreasonable

You are her employer and she is your employee first and foremost
There is, however, always room for compromise from both sides

Polish employment law entitles employees to automatically take unpaid leave for the purposes of marriage. Good employers actually throw in up to 5 days paid leave for marriage as well.

I realise that your nanny is employed under UK employment law but it may never have occured to her that she would not be entitled to take the leave, and as a long-standing employee would probably be hoping that you would give her paid leave for some of the days.

You need to talk to her about this not us.

She has 3 DCs, Loie,one of them currently only 9months - that pretty much puts the kibosh on nanny sharing.

And why should she have to? The nanny should be doing the job she is paid to do.

She should forego the retreat. It is quite obvious. she won't - therefore she is being inflexible and unreasonable.

Her wedding is on a Saturday and she works for me Mon/Tues and Thurs so its not as if she HAS to take time off, and if it really was that important to her why does she not cancel the retreat?

Funny way to talk about a wedding

Ah. There's the missing piece. Thanks, Takeresponsibility. She expects something under Polish law that isn't on offer under English law. Here's the root of the whole misunderstanding.

OP, you need to work this out with her.

And I repeat - the OP title was about not giving time off for the wedding. Why? seems very odd to me

you cant really be serious with this question ??????.....

' therefore we cannot really comment on how reasonable it would be for you refuse your nanny's request'

whilst there's sense elsewhere in that post, why on earth would OP have posted in AIBU if she did not want.....?

Or why would we respond here?

I have some sympathy with the OP feeling it is a bit of a headache but there's a load of time to sort it out. Which is why I think there's something else going on for her to be so inflexible about it

kepler, I think that if the nanny cancels the June retreat, then OP doesn't have to take time off in June to look after DC's and can therefore transfer that leave over to Sept, thereby solving the childcare problem over the period of the wedding.

Everyone stating that the OP is legally and technically in the right is spot on. Having said that, I still stand by my earlier assertion: if she's important to the family and does a good job looking after the DC's, then finding alternative childcare arrangements for 6 days in 9 months time really shouldn't be a problem, especially if the nanny's leave is unpaid.

The consequences of being pedantic in this matter will likely be losing her altogether.

I also agree that OP needs to have a proper back up plan in place if so little time so far in advance is this much of an issue.

Butterbur am anohter who said get a temp...

when we started looking for someone to care occasionally for our younger two a bit of asking revelaed that our CM's adult DD (who used to be registered with her when ds3 attended) was ;looking for just that sort of occasional thing....

and one can do a lot of asking around in 8 months surely? Especially in tight financial times- all sorts of people, friends etc- may well be willing to help out for a bit of financial relief: people OP would already know and trust. Even employed people who are ooffer to take 2 weeks hol just to get the extra money.

But if you don't ask you never find them.

Well Wukter, I've asked twice if it would be reasonable for a teacher to get married in September and ask for two weeks off afterwards. Should all teachers be allowed to do this?

As I said before, the 13wk holiday packeage actually only allows for teachers to get married in August if they want a Saturday wedding with 2wks off afterwards (as this nanny is asking). Personally, I didn't want to get married in August but I had no choice if I wanted 2wks away afterwards.

Butterbur - the OP title is shoudl she not give the nany time off for the wedding not other options of childcare....... I think other MNers are just thinkign that begrudging someone time off for their wedding is mean. If she had said nanny had done this and wedding was in March then I am pretty sure response would be different but 8 months is a long time to be able to make some other arrnagements and what does she think she is going to do - ban her from attending her own wedding?

Polish employment law entitles employees to automatically take unpaid leave for the purposes of marriage.

I was about to post exactly that. A strongly Catholic country, marriage is seen as very important in Poland.

Ok I have been off the internet since last night. My nanny is on significantly more than the minimum wage for whoever implied that. She is well paid and I pay PAYE/NI etc, I could get someone cheaper but haven't as she has looked after my DC over the past 6 years and I have give reasonable payrises each year. She hasn't left because she'd have to take a paycut if she did and because I am generally a good employer, and go out of my way to help her in whatever was I can within reason.

She took a year off working for me when i was on maternity leave and she left the other family when I went back to work, said they were totally unreasonable compared to me, so its all relative. One thing that annoyed her was that it was a nanny share and one family went away and found her replacement children to look after without checking with her and she was furious.

In terms of holiday, I have asked around and I seem to be generous in terms of what she gets. Its totally normal for nanny only able to choose 2 weeks out of 4, and some of my friends have insisted that whole allowance is taken in school holidays. As I said many years she has had 7 paid weeks off, just only 2 of these at her choosing. Before DD started school 3 years ago we tried to give her all 4 at her choosing as we timed our holidays around hers, but now thats more difficult and she knows that.

I will go out of my way to give her a week off, but if she tries to push it to 2 weeks will probably look for someone else. The main thing that I am annoyed about is that she assumed she could take unpaid leave knowing I have no back-up AND she set a date several months ago without even bothering to tell me. She has been engaged for ages, I think she told me at the start of 2010 but hadn't set a date.

I can't do a nannyshare as most other nannies already have 2 kids to look after and a nanny can't look after 5, but yes, maybe my SIL's nanny can look after DS2 during school day when she just has SIL's baby to look after.

mathanxiety , thanks, I had a senior moment, but yes, I see OP wants to go away with her in-laws.
I would just find someone else for those days she is away for her wedding. She isn't a slave, and only works part time hours. OP not being gracious about the wedding may cause her to quit.

The only reason she is wrong is that she hasn't pre checked the dates with you. As someone else said can't your husband take a week off during her wedding?
If it was my nanny I would obviously give her the time off and if she wants to take it as unpaid leave I would get a temp nanny in for that time.
YABU