To tell my nanny she can't take days of for her wedding.

[Foreverondiet]

Have had same nanny for several years and each year she does some sort of retreat thing in June, 2 weeks. She is allowed 2 weeks holiday when she chooses and the rest when we choose (usually another 4 weeks worth).

Anyway she tells me she is getting married.... I think nothing of it until cleaner says did you know it was in September this year. I ask the nanny and she said, yes she was thinking she's take some unpaid leave. Try to push how much she needs, she wants another couple of weeks. I suggested maybe she wouldn't do the retreat this year but she was almost in tears and said she couldn't believe I wouldn't give her time of for getting married (she's going back home to eastern Europe to get married).

I asked her why she thought it would be ok, as I don't have enough holiday to cover it because we have already committed to go away with DH's parents. And yes I can take unpaid parental leave but this would be very expensive, and leave my boss being a bit annoyed with me.

The reason we have a nanny is that I have 3 DC, aged 4,7 and 9 months and its the only way I can work (full day nursery/childminder for baby plus after school would cost almost the same and this way she looks after older DC if they are ill or during school holidays).

Her wedding is on a Saturday and she works for me Mon/Tues and Thurs so its not as if she HAS to take time off, and if it really was that important to her why does she not cancel the retreat?

How dare your nanny have a personal life?

are you really that much of a bitch?

i want to slap you on her behalf.

you are very lucky you didnt tell me i couldnt have time off for my own wedding. you sound awful.

Thought slavery was abolished. You are being mean and awful. Do you have any friends or family who could help????? Maybe not

I just can't see the problem.

OP has 8 months in order to arrange child care for her DCs.
She won't be paying the Nanny for her time off.
The Nanny has been with her family for years and is presumably a good,well liked employee.

Cut her some slack for a wedding.

I was speechless recently when a mother at school told me how much better her nanny this year was than the previous year's nanny - because the previous year's nanny had a boyfriend, and was therefore not 100% focused on the children/available 24/7 for ad hoc babysitting

Dittany, what makes you think OP is well off enough to pay for an additional 2 weeks of childcare to enable her to carry on working whilst nanny is on holiday. And then having done that, pay the nanny for an additional 2 weeks when she isn't working so that OP can take holiday when she wants to.

That would result in the nanny having over 6 weeks of paid holiday and is a ridiculous suggestion.

Why are some people getting so righteous about this, just because we're talking about a nanny and a wedding? The law applies to everyone.

I wouldn't organise my wedding on the assumption of being automatically allowed to take leave - unpaid or not - without checking first with my employer. And I wouldn't get all weepy if, having done this, my employer then said I either had to use my annual leave allowance or else not take time off for my wedding.

Why should a nanny be treated otherwise than any other kind of employee?

You're well within your rights to restrict when she takes her holiday. There are no provisions under UK law that state an employee's right to take holiday when he/she wishes - provided the employee gets the statutory allowance of annual leave it's always at the employer's discretion. If you're giving her the equivalent of 6 weeks, then at 3 days a week that's 18 days' annual leave (does she get Bank Holidays as well? In that case it's 24 days, which is more than many FT non-nannying employees get). That's well above the statutory requirement of 16.8 days, which can include Bank Holidays, for a 3-day week.

If you want to say no, say no. You're under no obligation to give her extra time off, paid or not. Bear in mind that refusing might damage your relationship with her and/or she may just leave, in which case you'll need to find another nanny. But that's your lookout.

And. Last I checked, nannying is not exactly a low paid job. In this specific instance we don't know how much she's getting paid so shouldn't comment.

why does it matter how much shes getting paid?

This is a classic case of a lack of communication. Yes she should have asked before fixing the date, she could offer to cancel her retreat, but she sounds wary of your reaction had she approached you, seemingly correctly. There ought to be room for compromise and you do at least have time to arrange cover however galling it may be. I'm not sure why you taking unpaid leave to cover would necessarily work out much more expensive than if you pay her extra holiday normally.

I do think you need to consider whether she is as committed to your arrangement as you need her to be but how easy would she be to replace? Set emotions aside and speak to her calmly with calendar to hand.

Dittany, nobody has said anybody should treat their staff like shit. A lot of people have said that even though the employer is in the right, she should try and accomadate the nanny and/or make a compromise on it.

I'd like to think that caring for someone's children for several years and hopefully being an important part of family life is seen as more than just a job. Those who see this as a simple employer/employee relationship where the OP should put her foot down are missing how important it is to have a good reciprocal relationship with some give and take.

I know there are parents out there who see it as their right to 'take' when they need a bit above the normal ask but don't ever see the need to give because they're paying for a service. They treat the nanny like a servant and allow the children to do the same.

OP,I can't quite work out if the you are one of those or not. You definitely don't seem to value this nanny as a person or an important part of your children's lives.

Did you start this thread to find evidence that you are in the right or genuinely the find out if you are being unreasonable?

If you really are unsure whether you are being reasonable you need to look at the wider picture. Is it more important to win this little spat or to keep a childcarer who has clearly been loyal and reliable and probably has a really good relationship with your children?

It's not as if she's going to be getting married again next year is it? This is a one off.

What you have a legal right to do isn't really relevant is it? You have an opportunity to help to make this girl's wedding special. You could of course make it unpleasant and difficult to punish her for inconveniencing you but is it really worth it? Do you fancy going through recruiting an new nanny? I bet that would be far more hassle.

If i were her i would leave you right in the shit for being such a nasty nasty bitch.

Id say "ok i wont take that 2 weeks off for my once in a lifetime marrage to the man i love and want to spend the rest of my life with", take you for as much money as possible up until about 1 week before the wedding, change my number and VANISH.. leaving you well and truly in the shit.

This is mild compared to some of the other things i could come up with. I'd be very careful and hope to god she is a really realy nice person.

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry) but why can't the nanny's normal two-four weeks holiday be taken at the time of the wedding?

Or why can't the OP cancel her holiday plans?

Where I work (a bank) special "once in a lifetime" holidays such as weddings and honeymoons are not subject to the company's normal rules - main one being that you are only allowed 2 weeks off at a time - are at the managers discretion.

The OP needs to get a heart!

othehugemanitee

not sure how you convlude 24 days holiday is MORE than full time non nanny employees get?

EVERYONE is entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday so every full time (ie 5 days a week) person is entitled to 28 days holiday as a legal minium

Basically Alison is right, OP. It's a one-off, and while on the one hand you have no legal obligation to accommodate her, on the other hand you have to consider the ongoing relationship and the effect your decision will have on that.

In all likelihood you're going to have to weigh the hassle of finding cover for her 2 weeks this summer against the hassle of finding a new nanny.

I'd be pissed off to be put in this position, so in that sense YANBU. But it might not be in your interests to be completely inflexible.

missy charming

knitted I am arguing that pay shouldn't come into discussion. It is Dittany was suggesting that she is a low paid member of staff, which we don't know.

Am I right, the nanny can take 2 weeks off whenever she wants and she usually takes this for a retreat? And the other time off is at employer's say so?

Well, why can't the nanny take her 2 weeks off (paid) in September, and do the retreat at another time, the weeks when the employers wants her to have off.

There are a billion retreats out there run thronging the year, she could do that at any time. It's not something shed have to cancel. The OP has been slated he, but I do think the nanny is in the wrong to assume she can have whatever time off she wants without first discussing it and clearing it with her employer.

People have also talked about compromise, well, given the nanny is the one doing all the asking, maybe she should be prepared to be flexible and compromise. Sure she can do her retreat, just at another time that doesn't cause so much extra hassle and expense for the employers.

I doubt may people in paid employment are in the position when they get to say exactly what holidays they want and when, from entry level jobs up to very senior positions (my mum at one time owned her own company, and it was conversely even harder to take time off that she wanted, she is not working part time and has much less stress, but still has to ask if she can have time off, and January for example would be a total no no). just cos it's a wedding doesn't mean she should be able to do what she wants with no consideration, and I understand why the OP is pissed off.

I guess the Q is what to do. I actually feel sorry for OP as she is in a bit of a no win situation.

Maybe try and talk calmly and sympathetically and get her to at least compromise on the retreat dates.

Maybe September is only an idea and nothing actually booked?

nannyl, thehugemanitee was talking about the holidays for an employee working 3 days, 24 days for a 3-day employee is 8 weeks, so well over the 5.6 weeks statutory minimum.

Nannyl

Those 28 days can include Bank Holidays or have Bank Holidays in addition, at the employer's discretion. So if you get 28 days AL plus BHs you get in effect 36 days. If you don't get BHs on top, you get 20 days AL and then your BHs, making up 28 days.

Your nanny has been very cavalier about making arrangements without entering into a dialogue with you (so much so, I wonder if she is already planning to leave before her wedding so just didn't bother getting into it).

But you have no alternative but to suck it up this time: wedding, abroad, plenty of notice, good employee.

Oh I think you are being incredibly unreasonable. She has worked for you for years and is getting married - an event that will hopefully happen once. SHe is a nanny, not a slave and I think you are being rubbish.