to get angry when school threatens to exclude DS for smoking

[Sistah]

14 year old DS smokes. We have taken him to smoking cessation classes to no avail. He has been caught smoking several times on school premises and today they are threatening to exclude him, after catching him again.
Now, seriously? My feeling is that they need some perspective. They want to exclude him for smoking, they want to take him out of a normal learning environment for smoking? I think they are being totally unreasonable but they just don't see it. I get the broken record routine: "He broke a school rule". Pfft.

OP the school is not threatening to exclude him for smoking, they are threatening to exclude for repeatedly smoking on school premises, which is not the same thing. The fact that he is addicted to cigarettes is one thing. The fact that he chooses to stick two fingers up at the school is another. It is not a smoking issue (which I think is terrible enough for him), it is a discipline issue. As maryz said, if you feel that he really can't get through the day without a ciggie then take him out at lunchtime (obviously you do not want to condone the smoking so this may not sit well with you) or go down every break and lunch and seek him out.

Just really really impress on him that he cannot break such a serious school rule. It is the thin end of the wedge and you have to support the school on this if you want to a) keep control over hm and b) for him to have any hope of doing well at school. As a teacher I saw all too many parents condoning their child's breaches of school rules and it rarely ended well for the child.

as others have said it's not just about the smoking it's about continually breaking school rules - stop his money - if he has no money how does he buy his cigs - have you tried to find out where he gets them from - if he cannot abide by the school rules what is his next step ??? stand up to him and back up the school

Exclusion is the punishment - whether or not you think it's appropriate or not is irrelevant. He's been offered the support, he chose not to stop, he doesn't even have the foresight to move off school property to smoke; in effect he is sticking 2 fingers up at the rules. So, exclusion it is, and hopefully the OP will ensure that it is a less than happy experience for him.

It's only a couple of years before he'll find himself facing en employer who won't hesitate to escort him off the premises if he smokes on them. If he's man enough to smoke and choose to flout rules, then he's man enough to accept the consequences without bleating about the fairness of it all.

No, they haven't failed his education. I'm presuming they've provided him with an education - he is the one who chose to continue to smoke on school premises, which is what he's being punished for - and I'm guessing that he's probably already run the gamut of the other punishments, as exclusion is usually the last resort.

The addiction is only going to be resolved by him wanting to give up.

His education will suffer unless he stops smoking on school premises.

The school has many hundreds of other pupils to look out for; one 14 year old who is sticking 2 fingers up at the school rules (supported, it seems, by his mother) needs to learn that if he does behave that way then he'll be punished.

GRRR I am very annoyed (with myself for sitting on the fence a bit) because I understand exactly what you are saying altinkmum and I sort of agree with you but at the same time I am leaning a bit more towards the harsher punishmnent even though as you say it is not going to help him stop smoking. I think the point of the school is really that he should not do it in school and it that sense, after having told him times and times again, they have to suspend him or they would be very inconsistant.

Again, we are missing a few vital informations from OP as we do not know what sort of support the school offered before reaching this point. From OP it seems that it has been an ongoing matter. I am guessing that the suspention was used as a last resort but might be wrong.

Is anyone saying that he shouldn't be offered smoking cessation? Nope (although it appears that he's already had that, and didn't want to stop). People are saying that as he's been caught smoking on school premises on several occasions, then he should be punished. Whether or not we think exclusion is appropriate or not is irrelevant - that's the school rule.

I work for the NHS, and smoking on premises is a serious disciplinary matter. If anyone was to continue to smoke then they would be sacked. Whether or not you think that's appropriate is also irrelevent, as that's what happens. Everyone knows the consequences - it's up to them whether or not they wish to face them. It's called personal responsibility.

Oh for heavens sake - the school are not failing his education. Those are the rules, and he's choosing to break them, knowing what the consequences are. If he doesn't like it then he needs to take it up with the LA - who I suspect will support the school - or move his backside off school premises to smoke.

Yes, most 14 year old boys are perfectly capable of understanding rules and taking personal responsibility - they just kick up more of a fuss that adults, and tend not to like it if they can't do exactly as they please. Oh well, we can deal with mouthy teenagers.

Exclusion is perfectly legal - I'm not sure why you think it isn't. Legally he doesn't have to be in school until he's 18 - it's 16 - they must remain in education until the last Friday in June in the school year in which the child reaches the age of 16.

OK, I may have misunderstood your posts - they have a duty to educate him until 16, but within that they are perfectly within their rights to exclude. Nowhere has it been suggested by the OP that they are failing their legal responsibility to educate him.

I'm suspecting that he's not the type of boy to sit quietly at the front of the class - the other kids in the class are probably delighted to see the back of him when he's excluded.

OP is this the first time he's had exclusion (for anything). Does he have a history of flouting school rules?

If he does perhaps this may go some way to explain why he won't abide by them this time.

I think at some point in your life you have to realise that if you break rules you have to accept the consequences. Tough!

If he has any ambition or aspirations for his life im afraid he needs to learn this lesson now.

You SHOULD be supporting the school in this decision my son is 9 and knows that it doesnt matter how "unfair" he considers the rules to be, if he CHOOSES to break a rule he takes the subsequent punishment.

altinkum I don't think the 18 leaving age has been formalised yet.

You never truly know what your children will be like when they're teenagers, purple. Your delightful 9 yo may turn into a rule-flouting monster yet. Teenage is a funny old time.