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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBUR to be concerned (LONG)

137 replies

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:22

My SIL 'trapped' my brother into being with her by getting pregnant. My brother and I were never close, TBH I thought (think?) he was a bit of a prat for falling for it (you can be part of a childs life without marrying the bloody woman!) Nonetheless, they seemed to be OK and whatever I think of her mother, I adore my nephew, who is gorgeous and clever and wonderful (of course). However, as soon as the baby was born, things seemed to start sending me alarm signals.

Brother & SIL were living with HER mum when the baby was born. They had pet guinea pigs, which died of starvation in the days of baby coming because they forgot to feed her.

SILs mum kicked them (and baby!) out of house about three months later because they 'made too much mess', so they came to stay with me, DP and DD. I can utterly confirm that they live worse than pigs, but that's not really the point.

Nephew would be awake at 7am, be grabbed out of cot and put on end of bed until noon when parents would finally wake up (neither work). He would cry from hunger, or need to be changed, or (twice!) because he had been kicked off of the end of the bed by sleeping parents. In the end, I usually took Nephew downstairs, fed him, changed him, chatted with him, showed him the world (good morning trees!) as with my own DD before all getting dressed to go to the park or the shop or just for a wander. SIL would come down at noon (NOON! At the earliest!) and say good morning to Nephew and offer him breakfast. She would totally ignore me and DD (who seemed bemused, and a little hurt if I'm honest).

She would refuse to allow Nephew to leave the house with me and DD, often shouting and swearing "he's my baby!".

SIL never changed Nephews nappy on her own, not once the entire time she lived with us (nearly six months). It was both infuriating an terrifying to see her scream and shout at my brother to pass her the baby wipes, QUICKER or whathaveyou, and to see her scaring and upsetting Nephew, who seemed to quite enjoy being changed by anyone else, in the way that they do ("ooh! look! I'm naked! This is brilliant! Hang on, what the hells this thing?!"). But SIL seemed to make it into this massive ordeal, that she couldn't bear to do.

One one occasion, my brother shouted at me that I was an interfering whore (because DP and I are unmarried) who didn't know anything (despite having two youth and children qualifications and my own DC, two years older than theirs) and was trying to 'ruin their lives' and DP (I don't think I've ever loved him as much as I did right then) pointed out, firmly but calmly that I had housed my brother and his wife and their child, despite the financial and emotional complications for our family, that I was concerned for Nephew despite what I think of them and that I had on numerous occasions asked what I could do to better help them.

He touched on the fact that it was a "surprise" for my brother that Nephew was conceived, and pointed out that if my brother expected us to house him and some girl he'd knocked up, he could at least accord me the courtesy of keeping his own opinions about our marital status to himself. He again said that we were both v. concerned for Nephew, and also for SIL - asking that she see a doctor about possible PND. SIL flew into a rage at being called 'some girl' (they'd known each other two months when she got pregnant. DP and I had been together four years BEFORE the possibility of a DC was mentioned) and literally screaming and flailing like a the worst kind of toddler. She then (actually scarily hysterical) tried to go upstairs and wake Nephew and take him with her. We refused - to let her upstairs, partly for DD, who I knew would be awake and terrified at the shouting, never mind having SIL barge upstairs into her bedroom, but mostly for Nephew as we were concerned as to what she was going to do in the middle of the night with no money in a random village miles from anywhere. I insisted she calmed down before she could take Nephew anywhere (Brother actually agreed. He's a dick, but I think she scared even him that night) as she would just upset him. Eventually she stormed out on her own and sat on the wall outside and pinched herself black and blue.

She eventually came back in and just went straight upstairs to bed. TBH, I couldn't face more of her. She had properly scared me and I had only just calmed DD down.

On another occasion, I was washing up while DD sat on the side beside me, chatting. I splashed her and we were having a very tame waterfight (mostly her giggling trying not to fall in!) when my mother brings in Nephew who sticks his hands out to DD, who then splashes him. Slightly. It was literally about four teeny-tiny drops, flung from the tips of her fingers. It caught him right in the face and Nephew looked utterly confused for a second, and then giggled his little head off. SIL immediately charged in and SCREAMED and SWORE at DD, reducing her (and Nephew) to tears. I told her not to talk to DD like that, my mother took both the children out of the room instead. I told SIL that in this house we ASK FIRST. (I'm not averse to a bit of shouting, but this was insane screaming with no warning!) I told her that it is not appropriate to talk to any child like that, and I would not have it repeated. She refused to apologize to DD who was v. v. upset (luckily she adores her Nana, who's a bit mad and lets her do all sorts of things she isn't allowed at home, like riding the dog and sitting in the sink) and began shouting about me abusing HER baby.

There were lots of things that me and DP felt did not sit right, though we tried v. hard not to be the judgey middle-class couple looking down on their poor, unemployed relatives. They 'could not afford' to pay share of our electricity bill, or to contribute to the food in any meaningful way. They occasionally, after much asking would bring down the dirty plates and cups from their bedroom. That was as much as I could get them to contribute to the housework. Neither of them washed enough, and were both happy to cram Nephew into dirty babygros.

Despite their 'poverty' they bought CDs, games and a Nintendo DS for themselves, but nothing for Nephew. They would EACH buy about five pounds worth of sweets in the local shop EACH DAY, quite happily eating three or four mars bars with lunch and a family sized bag of malteasers after dinner. SIL constantly told me that Nephew 'wouldn't eat that' about anything. DD was two and a half at the time and was trying to be fussy about her fruit and veg, so I was giving her every kind of fruit and vegetable I could think of and I would naturally not exclude Nephew. Despite SILs protests, Nephew would happily eat almost any fruit - adored apples and plums from our own fruit trees, as well as all the other lovely things that madam DD was turning her nose up at. But SIL would LITERALLY take food from his mouth and tell me he didn't like it.

She wouldn't play with him - she was a bit like an uninterested teenage babysitter, making the token noises for about five minutes, before leaving him on the floor while she played on her Nintendo, and getting ANNOYED at him for wanting her attention, shouting "NO! MUMMY'S BUSY!" and slapping his hands.

They stayed with us for about six months, and by the end of their time (Nephew was about 9 months old) he was talking a little and saying the things he heard me say a lot (HEWWO WORLD! APPLE!!! Moooooo!). He would come to me if he fell, and he and DD were in a quite cheerful routine in the mornings, and a quite unpleasant one in the afternoon

Although DP, and I and DD missed Nephew, we were all glad to have both my brother and SIL out from under our feet.

This was over a year ago, Nephew is now nearly two and his parents have had a council flat for over a year (which is where they moved out of our house to). Saw their flat for the first time this week and was horrified. Their flat is not carpeted and there are those horrible carpet gripping rods with nails sticking out of them all around the edges of the room. There is a large TV, an Xbox and a sofa. That is almost all of the furniture. Brother and SIL bought themselves a new bed when they moved. Nephew has a STAINED second hand one, with no sheets on. There was no furniture or proper curtains in Nephews room, but there was in their bedroom.

Their house was dirty. There were about half a dozen MOULDY cups of tea on various surfaces in the living room, in places where Nephew could easily knock them over. The floor was cold and dirty and there were bits of gravel and things on it - not suitable for someone who is just learning to walk! There were also sweet wrappers everywhere on the floor which are both slippery and a choking hazard.

He can still say very few words, and 90% of them are the ones he was saying or trying to say when he left here.

When I saw him, I took him a few apples from our garden. SIL immediately threw them in the bin. I don't care about how insulting it is to me - I am upset by the fact that I know Nephew likes them and they are good for him and she is depriving him of them.

Again, I feel like I'm being bitchy or judgey but I AM CONCERNED. I don't feel like they are looking after him well.

AIBUR to be extremely concerned by their behaviour?!?

OP posts:
gordyslovesheep · 11/01/2011 21:31

well contact SS - with all your qualification that should be obvious :)

TastesLikePanda · 11/01/2011 21:32

Good grief, YADNBU. If things were half as bad as you say, any normal person would be concerned.

tomhardyismydh · 11/01/2011 21:36

i would talk to ss but you need to scale some of this down, its very ranty and making too many comparisons some of the he said she said blah blah is not at all relevent.

write down clearly your observsations and concerns of risks hazords etc and anything else that the child is exposed to that is of detrement to his welfare and development and call ss.

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:37

I'm just terrified - they keep telling me I'm jealous and trying to ruin their life. As many times as I've tried to calmy say "this isn't good enough", they've said that they think it is.

It's NOT just me being snobby though, is it? It is appalling behaviour?

They tell me that I'm middle-class, guardian-reading interfering bag (well, bag is more of my word) - and that just because I want to make my kids lentil soup doesn't mean that they're doing it wrong.

TBH, the lentil soup doesn't even come into it - and the sandals aren't compulsory any more.

OP posts:
bumpybecky · 11/01/2011 21:38

I'd have to hesitation about calling social services and reporting them.

YANBU to be very concerned

bumpybecky · 11/01/2011 21:39

no hesitation

(must learn to preview, sorry!)

MumNWLondon · 11/01/2011 21:39

If it really is as bad as you say you have to contact SS. No point in being quitely concerned.

StewieGriffinsMom · 11/01/2011 21:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tomhardyismydh · 11/01/2011 21:40

you are right it is appauling and no it is not just you.

do your parents have a view on it? could you get thier support in what to do. I would not just ignore this it is terrible.

ashamedandconfused · 11/01/2011 21:40

if this is for real what the hell are you posting on here for instead of contacting SS

that child is being severely neglected. YOU are his only means of getting help.

DO IT!!!

Vallhala · 11/01/2011 21:43

I'm not middle class, I can't stomach The Guardian and I'm probably one of the least modern, liberal parents on here. A lot of the time I think that parents here are rather precious and that they make a fuss and pander to children appallingly.

This isn't one of those times.

I'm unusually saddened and troubled by this behaviour of your DB and SIL and would have no hesitation in reporting the hazards and neglect to SS.

NoLadyButManyBubbasAndBumps · 11/01/2011 21:43

SS ~ simple as that. You know it's the right thing to do.

TheVisitor · 11/01/2011 21:44

Speak to SS. Things they do look at is whether children have suitable bedding, proper food in the cupboards, physical and emotional development etc. I'm surprised that you've not already. They needed involvement right from the start.

cobbledtogether · 11/01/2011 21:46

If this is the case then you owe it to your nephew to phone SS.

Keep it very objective and clear - leave out 'I feel'
Describe the house, give dates and times when you have witnessed stuff.

Poor thing.

NadiaWadia · 11/01/2011 21:47

I think you would be completely justified in reporting them to Social Services. Things don't sound great for your nephew.

I think you have been a saint for taking them into your home, only for your kindness to be thrown back in your face. If my brother had called me a whore he would have left the house the same day.

fairtradefloozy · 11/01/2011 21:47

Ask yourself what it is you want SS to do, and think about what they could do. Consider the fall out of your decision. Then do what you think is right.

FWIW, I think SS but you have to understand that a) they could do nothing for a while b) you might not like what they do do c) its likely your family will know its you that has made the report.

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:49

It is wrong, isn't it? It's NOT just me.

My mum agrees (my dad passed away a year or so back) but again - she feels like she's being judgey and maybe she's out of touch. She has offered money, or to buy things like furniture or whathaveyou; she has offered to paint Nephews bedroom herself. They won't let her.

Brother and SIL have threatened to cut her of from Nephew if she mentions that they should sort themselves out again.

She ADORES her GC, TBH especially Nephew as he looks and acts like me and my brothers did, (all blonde and boisterous) whereas my own DD takes after her fathers side of the family (shiny dark hair and eyes and a bit quiet and solemn)

I suppose the concern is that my mother and I have little enough contact as it is... If I report them to SS, and the SS don't act or act quickly enough, Nephew will be left with NO lifelines.

OP posts:
MarianneM · 11/01/2011 21:51

I agree with everyone else, please call SS immediately. It really sounds terrible!

CupcakesHay · 11/01/2011 21:53

OMG call someone about this please. For your nephew's sake.

alicet · 11/01/2011 21:54

I can understand your concern in the last post.

However think of the alternative - how could you live with yourself if he was seriously injured or worse and you hadn't contacted ss?

At the very least this is neglect on a pretty massive scale. There sounds like an amount of emotional abuse as well. Call them tomorrow.

NonnoMum · 11/01/2011 21:55

Yep - time to get that baby with sane parents who will offer him a decent life.

SS here we come!

Seabright · 11/01/2011 21:56

Could your nephew stay with you?

sazzle1234 · 11/01/2011 21:57

I'd contact SS too who should complete a home visit and look at the living conditions. Altho it sounds like most of it is laziness on their part, SS can help them access charities who can help them more adequately furnish the flat and get the necessary bedding etc. There are also organisations who SS can refer to, who do weekly visit to 'encourage' parents to stay on top of their living conditions.
The speech target for a 2yr old is roughly 20 words so unless he's massively behind they usually feel this rectifies itself when kids go to school/ pre-school.
Altho a lot of this is heartbreaking for you and I thoroughly understand ur predicament, all parents have the right to raise their children how they see fit as long as the child is fed, clothed etc.
Also be prepared for the backlash. If u call SS, the chances are they'll know it was you, SS won't tell them if you ask them not to, but given the history I think they'll work it out. In this case you may have to be prepared for them to cut you out their lives and you may never see Nephem again. This should in no way discourage you from doing what's best for him, just be prepared.

QueeferSutherland · 11/01/2011 21:57

Deffo call SS.

However, how could your DBro be trapped into fatherhood? Could he not wear a condom if he was really concerned about getting someone pg.

Whatever, please call them and keep on at them.

LaWeaselMys · 11/01/2011 21:57

I think that all of this wouldn't be so bad if they were trying and willing to change.

But that doesn't sound like the case at all, so yes I think you should contact SS if they keep refusing your help.