Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBUR to be concerned (LONG)

137 replies

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:22

My SIL 'trapped' my brother into being with her by getting pregnant. My brother and I were never close, TBH I thought (think?) he was a bit of a prat for falling for it (you can be part of a childs life without marrying the bloody woman!) Nonetheless, they seemed to be OK and whatever I think of her mother, I adore my nephew, who is gorgeous and clever and wonderful (of course). However, as soon as the baby was born, things seemed to start sending me alarm signals.

Brother & SIL were living with HER mum when the baby was born. They had pet guinea pigs, which died of starvation in the days of baby coming because they forgot to feed her.

SILs mum kicked them (and baby!) out of house about three months later because they 'made too much mess', so they came to stay with me, DP and DD. I can utterly confirm that they live worse than pigs, but that's not really the point.

Nephew would be awake at 7am, be grabbed out of cot and put on end of bed until noon when parents would finally wake up (neither work). He would cry from hunger, or need to be changed, or (twice!) because he had been kicked off of the end of the bed by sleeping parents. In the end, I usually took Nephew downstairs, fed him, changed him, chatted with him, showed him the world (good morning trees!) as with my own DD before all getting dressed to go to the park or the shop or just for a wander. SIL would come down at noon (NOON! At the earliest!) and say good morning to Nephew and offer him breakfast. She would totally ignore me and DD (who seemed bemused, and a little hurt if I'm honest).

She would refuse to allow Nephew to leave the house with me and DD, often shouting and swearing "he's my baby!".

SIL never changed Nephews nappy on her own, not once the entire time she lived with us (nearly six months). It was both infuriating an terrifying to see her scream and shout at my brother to pass her the baby wipes, QUICKER or whathaveyou, and to see her scaring and upsetting Nephew, who seemed to quite enjoy being changed by anyone else, in the way that they do ("ooh! look! I'm naked! This is brilliant! Hang on, what the hells this thing?!"). But SIL seemed to make it into this massive ordeal, that she couldn't bear to do.

One one occasion, my brother shouted at me that I was an interfering whore (because DP and I are unmarried) who didn't know anything (despite having two youth and children qualifications and my own DC, two years older than theirs) and was trying to 'ruin their lives' and DP (I don't think I've ever loved him as much as I did right then) pointed out, firmly but calmly that I had housed my brother and his wife and their child, despite the financial and emotional complications for our family, that I was concerned for Nephew despite what I think of them and that I had on numerous occasions asked what I could do to better help them.

He touched on the fact that it was a "surprise" for my brother that Nephew was conceived, and pointed out that if my brother expected us to house him and some girl he'd knocked up, he could at least accord me the courtesy of keeping his own opinions about our marital status to himself. He again said that we were both v. concerned for Nephew, and also for SIL - asking that she see a doctor about possible PND. SIL flew into a rage at being called 'some girl' (they'd known each other two months when she got pregnant. DP and I had been together four years BEFORE the possibility of a DC was mentioned) and literally screaming and flailing like a the worst kind of toddler. She then (actually scarily hysterical) tried to go upstairs and wake Nephew and take him with her. We refused - to let her upstairs, partly for DD, who I knew would be awake and terrified at the shouting, never mind having SIL barge upstairs into her bedroom, but mostly for Nephew as we were concerned as to what she was going to do in the middle of the night with no money in a random village miles from anywhere. I insisted she calmed down before she could take Nephew anywhere (Brother actually agreed. He's a dick, but I think she scared even him that night) as she would just upset him. Eventually she stormed out on her own and sat on the wall outside and pinched herself black and blue.

She eventually came back in and just went straight upstairs to bed. TBH, I couldn't face more of her. She had properly scared me and I had only just calmed DD down.

On another occasion, I was washing up while DD sat on the side beside me, chatting. I splashed her and we were having a very tame waterfight (mostly her giggling trying not to fall in!) when my mother brings in Nephew who sticks his hands out to DD, who then splashes him. Slightly. It was literally about four teeny-tiny drops, flung from the tips of her fingers. It caught him right in the face and Nephew looked utterly confused for a second, and then giggled his little head off. SIL immediately charged in and SCREAMED and SWORE at DD, reducing her (and Nephew) to tears. I told her not to talk to DD like that, my mother took both the children out of the room instead. I told SIL that in this house we ASK FIRST. (I'm not averse to a bit of shouting, but this was insane screaming with no warning!) I told her that it is not appropriate to talk to any child like that, and I would not have it repeated. She refused to apologize to DD who was v. v. upset (luckily she adores her Nana, who's a bit mad and lets her do all sorts of things she isn't allowed at home, like riding the dog and sitting in the sink) and began shouting about me abusing HER baby.

There were lots of things that me and DP felt did not sit right, though we tried v. hard not to be the judgey middle-class couple looking down on their poor, unemployed relatives. They 'could not afford' to pay share of our electricity bill, or to contribute to the food in any meaningful way. They occasionally, after much asking would bring down the dirty plates and cups from their bedroom. That was as much as I could get them to contribute to the housework. Neither of them washed enough, and were both happy to cram Nephew into dirty babygros.

Despite their 'poverty' they bought CDs, games and a Nintendo DS for themselves, but nothing for Nephew. They would EACH buy about five pounds worth of sweets in the local shop EACH DAY, quite happily eating three or four mars bars with lunch and a family sized bag of malteasers after dinner. SIL constantly told me that Nephew 'wouldn't eat that' about anything. DD was two and a half at the time and was trying to be fussy about her fruit and veg, so I was giving her every kind of fruit and vegetable I could think of and I would naturally not exclude Nephew. Despite SILs protests, Nephew would happily eat almost any fruit - adored apples and plums from our own fruit trees, as well as all the other lovely things that madam DD was turning her nose up at. But SIL would LITERALLY take food from his mouth and tell me he didn't like it.

She wouldn't play with him - she was a bit like an uninterested teenage babysitter, making the token noises for about five minutes, before leaving him on the floor while she played on her Nintendo, and getting ANNOYED at him for wanting her attention, shouting "NO! MUMMY'S BUSY!" and slapping his hands.

They stayed with us for about six months, and by the end of their time (Nephew was about 9 months old) he was talking a little and saying the things he heard me say a lot (HEWWO WORLD! APPLE!!! Moooooo!). He would come to me if he fell, and he and DD were in a quite cheerful routine in the mornings, and a quite unpleasant one in the afternoon

Although DP, and I and DD missed Nephew, we were all glad to have both my brother and SIL out from under our feet.

This was over a year ago, Nephew is now nearly two and his parents have had a council flat for over a year (which is where they moved out of our house to). Saw their flat for the first time this week and was horrified. Their flat is not carpeted and there are those horrible carpet gripping rods with nails sticking out of them all around the edges of the room. There is a large TV, an Xbox and a sofa. That is almost all of the furniture. Brother and SIL bought themselves a new bed when they moved. Nephew has a STAINED second hand one, with no sheets on. There was no furniture or proper curtains in Nephews room, but there was in their bedroom.

Their house was dirty. There were about half a dozen MOULDY cups of tea on various surfaces in the living room, in places where Nephew could easily knock them over. The floor was cold and dirty and there were bits of gravel and things on it - not suitable for someone who is just learning to walk! There were also sweet wrappers everywhere on the floor which are both slippery and a choking hazard.

He can still say very few words, and 90% of them are the ones he was saying or trying to say when he left here.

When I saw him, I took him a few apples from our garden. SIL immediately threw them in the bin. I don't care about how insulting it is to me - I am upset by the fact that I know Nephew likes them and they are good for him and she is depriving him of them.

Again, I feel like I'm being bitchy or judgey but I AM CONCERNED. I don't feel like they are looking after him well.

AIBUR to be extremely concerned by their behaviour?!?

OP posts:
BitOfFun · 11/01/2011 21:57

It looks pretty clear-cut to me. How sad that people like this are even allowed to be parents- they don't deserve it Sad

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:58

I am on the phone to the SS.

Thank you all.

TBH I think it helped me realise just how serious it was by writing it down. It's one thing to have concerns, it's another to see just how many you have iyswim?

Thanks again.

OP posts:
FudgeGirl · 11/01/2011 21:58

YABVU to not have called social services already.

I really cannot believe what I'm reading, you could have called SS twice over in the time it took you to type that. For shame!

ScarlettWalking · 11/01/2011 21:58

This child is being neglected and possibly abused. This could have a horrible ending like an awful story you read in the paper and think " was there anyone looking out for that child?"

Pls contact ss and take the emotion out of the situation , just report.

goodasgold · 11/01/2011 21:58

I would in the first instance have a word with my brother. It is his child. What does your mother think?

I have had concerns about my sister, but when I speak to my mother she is concerned that my sister will cut her out, so she ignores and tries to help in whatever way she can. (tidying up, childcare, financial)

I just say to my sister I don't think you should do that/I don't think you are setting a good example. Understatements. I also tell her that it should be fun for her to have a child, and if it isn't some/most of the time she should change something. Like herself. Or her dh.

Its so sad, try to help your brother first. See what he says.

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:59

When I was a teenager and a bit more forceful about my opinions, BitOfFun, I used to say there should be mandatory long-term contaception until you had past a parenting test.

Like a driving licence for prams.

OP posts:
alicet · 11/01/2011 22:03

What did ss say?

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 22:03

goodasgold I think that's what I've been trying to do - to do as much as I could, to let them get on with it, to improve Nephews life as much as poss without disturbing things.

Fact of the matter is, I'm more scared of doing nothing than I am of the wrong thing.

OP posts:
DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 22:06

seabright My nephew would be a wonderful addition to our family, he's as welcome as... I don't know, cheese to mice. But I can't see my brother and SIL just handing him over, and I DRK what the social services will do. And again, my brother and SIL have regularly accused me of trying to steal him. I'm not complaining because I want him here, I'm complaining because I want him out of there.

QueeferSunderland Like I said, I thought he was a bloody idiot at the time.

OP posts:
DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 22:06

SS still have me on hold, alicet

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 11/01/2011 22:09

I'd contact SS in your position. Just ask them to visit, make no comments, ask them to make an assessment as you're worried for your nephew.

Does the child have check-ups with a gp or health visitor, or do you not know?

It's too easy to think that everything will work out but if it's as bad as you say then outside help is needed.

Better to regret something that you did than regret something that you should have done and didn't.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 11/01/2011 22:09

SS will go and have a look.
Then they will decide if there are real concerns (as they see it)
Then they will offer your DB and SIL support to change.
Then it will be up to them if they accept the support or not.
Unless your DN is in immediate danger they wont whip him away. Its a long process and the family will be given a chance to change.
I agree that you need to talk to SS and that you also need to pare it down a bit. Just your concerns and the facts.

spler · 11/01/2011 22:10

YANBU
But I don't understand why you're phoning SS this time of night? it's not as if there's a sudden crisis and they will only have emergency staff on. Can't it wait til the morning if it's waited 2 years?

goodasgold · 11/01/2011 22:11

What does your mother say? You must have spoken to her over this. What does your brother say? I call my sister up when she hits her dd. She is not as chaotic as your sil or b, but struggles with her temper, which makes me cross with her, I can't help but comment.

If you would like to have your nephew live with you could you offer to compensate them? It seems like their only loss would be the extra benefits they get for having him.

sazzle1234 · 11/01/2011 22:12

You might do better to call them in the morning. Its usually duty cover only at night to deal with an immediate risk. If struggling to get thru, call in the morning when the Social Workers will be in

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 22:21

OK. The woman said the same as you... She says it sounds concerning.

They're going to send someone round tomorrow or the day after. It's almost funny that when you shout at have issues with your noisy brat DD in a supermarket, you think the SS are going to break your door down at 2am, but when you kind of want them to break the door down at 2am, they're actually very civilised and don't do that sort of thing any more (worth knowing for the next time DD is screaming her head off about being in a tesco trolley, I suppose Hmm

Help and support, and if that doesn't work big sticks (well, I wish)

Thank you all

OP posts:
saffy85 · 11/01/2011 22:23

Shock at it taking you so long to call SS. Alarm bells would have been ringing for me long ago, like tiny baby being dumped on the edge of a bed for hours on end and then being kicked off by accident for example.

Also Hmm at anyone being trapped into parenthood. There are ways to prevent unplanned babies. condoms for one or just not shagging those you can't trust is another.

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 22:34

goodasgold my SIL in particular is VERY, VERY, VERY possessive. To a worrying degree.

She shouts at my brother that Nephew is HER baby. That possessive.

To the point where my mum got yelled down for referring to nephew as "my grandson" and not "SILs Son" casually in conversation.

Seriously, it would be so much easier with someone who KNEW they didn't care, or who was too drunk or drugged to care.

If you don't care, you don't take fruit out of the mouth of your child out of spite, iyswim?

My mum struggled a bit with PND with me. If you'd offered fifty pence promised me a good home until I was about 3 months old she would've had your hand off. She never hurt me, she fed and clothed and petted me. She didn't have any particular interest or ill-will. Not caring can be a lot less dangerous than caring in the wrong way, iyswim?

OP posts:
LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake · 11/01/2011 22:35

I think the story you have told is hideous and that they shouldn't be allowed to care for an open tin of beans.

However, I don't think the neglect is bad enough for them to do anything.

Dd's family live like this and even though she was taken into care years ago the two new children have been assessed as being cared for adequately.

Their house and care is almost exactly as you describe. Though with extra smells and dirtiness.

LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake · 11/01/2011 22:37

Sorry, posted too quick. I just wanted to add not to get your hopes up.

And it doesn't sound like pnd from what you've described, it sounds like just complete neglect.

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 22:40

thanks Laurie, I KWYM. But I suppose a shitty result and a clean conscience is better than a shitty result and a guilty one though. I just couldn't leave him like that. As I say, my worry now is that they'll cut me off and (without being big headed) Nephew will lose out because of it.

OP posts:
saffy85 · 11/01/2011 22:46

PND affects people in different ways. I had it and it meant although I did all the practical things a mum should for her baby I was emotionally detached from her for months, can't remember how long, is a bit of a blur. The guilt I felt nearly destroyed me, I contemplated suicide within 2 weeks of the birth.

I can't speak for others though.

What you describe sounds like a person [your SIL] who probably has deep seated issues already. IMO. That and PND is no excuse for that level of neglect.

LittleMissHissyFit · 11/01/2011 23:00

That poor child. Sad

darleneconnor · 12/01/2011 00:13

I think you did the right thing.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 12/01/2011 00:24

God I hope you get custody....I HATE seeing babies neglected. Sad