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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBUR to be concerned (LONG)

137 replies

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:22

My SIL 'trapped' my brother into being with her by getting pregnant. My brother and I were never close, TBH I thought (think?) he was a bit of a prat for falling for it (you can be part of a childs life without marrying the bloody woman!) Nonetheless, they seemed to be OK and whatever I think of her mother, I adore my nephew, who is gorgeous and clever and wonderful (of course). However, as soon as the baby was born, things seemed to start sending me alarm signals.

Brother & SIL were living with HER mum when the baby was born. They had pet guinea pigs, which died of starvation in the days of baby coming because they forgot to feed her.

SILs mum kicked them (and baby!) out of house about three months later because they 'made too much mess', so they came to stay with me, DP and DD. I can utterly confirm that they live worse than pigs, but that's not really the point.

Nephew would be awake at 7am, be grabbed out of cot and put on end of bed until noon when parents would finally wake up (neither work). He would cry from hunger, or need to be changed, or (twice!) because he had been kicked off of the end of the bed by sleeping parents. In the end, I usually took Nephew downstairs, fed him, changed him, chatted with him, showed him the world (good morning trees!) as with my own DD before all getting dressed to go to the park or the shop or just for a wander. SIL would come down at noon (NOON! At the earliest!) and say good morning to Nephew and offer him breakfast. She would totally ignore me and DD (who seemed bemused, and a little hurt if I'm honest).

She would refuse to allow Nephew to leave the house with me and DD, often shouting and swearing "he's my baby!".

SIL never changed Nephews nappy on her own, not once the entire time she lived with us (nearly six months). It was both infuriating an terrifying to see her scream and shout at my brother to pass her the baby wipes, QUICKER or whathaveyou, and to see her scaring and upsetting Nephew, who seemed to quite enjoy being changed by anyone else, in the way that they do ("ooh! look! I'm naked! This is brilliant! Hang on, what the hells this thing?!"). But SIL seemed to make it into this massive ordeal, that she couldn't bear to do.

One one occasion, my brother shouted at me that I was an interfering whore (because DP and I are unmarried) who didn't know anything (despite having two youth and children qualifications and my own DC, two years older than theirs) and was trying to 'ruin their lives' and DP (I don't think I've ever loved him as much as I did right then) pointed out, firmly but calmly that I had housed my brother and his wife and their child, despite the financial and emotional complications for our family, that I was concerned for Nephew despite what I think of them and that I had on numerous occasions asked what I could do to better help them.

He touched on the fact that it was a "surprise" for my brother that Nephew was conceived, and pointed out that if my brother expected us to house him and some girl he'd knocked up, he could at least accord me the courtesy of keeping his own opinions about our marital status to himself. He again said that we were both v. concerned for Nephew, and also for SIL - asking that she see a doctor about possible PND. SIL flew into a rage at being called 'some girl' (they'd known each other two months when she got pregnant. DP and I had been together four years BEFORE the possibility of a DC was mentioned) and literally screaming and flailing like a the worst kind of toddler. She then (actually scarily hysterical) tried to go upstairs and wake Nephew and take him with her. We refused - to let her upstairs, partly for DD, who I knew would be awake and terrified at the shouting, never mind having SIL barge upstairs into her bedroom, but mostly for Nephew as we were concerned as to what she was going to do in the middle of the night with no money in a random village miles from anywhere. I insisted she calmed down before she could take Nephew anywhere (Brother actually agreed. He's a dick, but I think she scared even him that night) as she would just upset him. Eventually she stormed out on her own and sat on the wall outside and pinched herself black and blue.

She eventually came back in and just went straight upstairs to bed. TBH, I couldn't face more of her. She had properly scared me and I had only just calmed DD down.

On another occasion, I was washing up while DD sat on the side beside me, chatting. I splashed her and we were having a very tame waterfight (mostly her giggling trying not to fall in!) when my mother brings in Nephew who sticks his hands out to DD, who then splashes him. Slightly. It was literally about four teeny-tiny drops, flung from the tips of her fingers. It caught him right in the face and Nephew looked utterly confused for a second, and then giggled his little head off. SIL immediately charged in and SCREAMED and SWORE at DD, reducing her (and Nephew) to tears. I told her not to talk to DD like that, my mother took both the children out of the room instead. I told SIL that in this house we ASK FIRST. (I'm not averse to a bit of shouting, but this was insane screaming with no warning!) I told her that it is not appropriate to talk to any child like that, and I would not have it repeated. She refused to apologize to DD who was v. v. upset (luckily she adores her Nana, who's a bit mad and lets her do all sorts of things she isn't allowed at home, like riding the dog and sitting in the sink) and began shouting about me abusing HER baby.

There were lots of things that me and DP felt did not sit right, though we tried v. hard not to be the judgey middle-class couple looking down on their poor, unemployed relatives. They 'could not afford' to pay share of our electricity bill, or to contribute to the food in any meaningful way. They occasionally, after much asking would bring down the dirty plates and cups from their bedroom. That was as much as I could get them to contribute to the housework. Neither of them washed enough, and were both happy to cram Nephew into dirty babygros.

Despite their 'poverty' they bought CDs, games and a Nintendo DS for themselves, but nothing for Nephew. They would EACH buy about five pounds worth of sweets in the local shop EACH DAY, quite happily eating three or four mars bars with lunch and a family sized bag of malteasers after dinner. SIL constantly told me that Nephew 'wouldn't eat that' about anything. DD was two and a half at the time and was trying to be fussy about her fruit and veg, so I was giving her every kind of fruit and vegetable I could think of and I would naturally not exclude Nephew. Despite SILs protests, Nephew would happily eat almost any fruit - adored apples and plums from our own fruit trees, as well as all the other lovely things that madam DD was turning her nose up at. But SIL would LITERALLY take food from his mouth and tell me he didn't like it.

She wouldn't play with him - she was a bit like an uninterested teenage babysitter, making the token noises for about five minutes, before leaving him on the floor while she played on her Nintendo, and getting ANNOYED at him for wanting her attention, shouting "NO! MUMMY'S BUSY!" and slapping his hands.

They stayed with us for about six months, and by the end of their time (Nephew was about 9 months old) he was talking a little and saying the things he heard me say a lot (HEWWO WORLD! APPLE!!! Moooooo!). He would come to me if he fell, and he and DD were in a quite cheerful routine in the mornings, and a quite unpleasant one in the afternoon

Although DP, and I and DD missed Nephew, we were all glad to have both my brother and SIL out from under our feet.

This was over a year ago, Nephew is now nearly two and his parents have had a council flat for over a year (which is where they moved out of our house to). Saw their flat for the first time this week and was horrified. Their flat is not carpeted and there are those horrible carpet gripping rods with nails sticking out of them all around the edges of the room. There is a large TV, an Xbox and a sofa. That is almost all of the furniture. Brother and SIL bought themselves a new bed when they moved. Nephew has a STAINED second hand one, with no sheets on. There was no furniture or proper curtains in Nephews room, but there was in their bedroom.

Their house was dirty. There were about half a dozen MOULDY cups of tea on various surfaces in the living room, in places where Nephew could easily knock them over. The floor was cold and dirty and there were bits of gravel and things on it - not suitable for someone who is just learning to walk! There were also sweet wrappers everywhere on the floor which are both slippery and a choking hazard.

He can still say very few words, and 90% of them are the ones he was saying or trying to say when he left here.

When I saw him, I took him a few apples from our garden. SIL immediately threw them in the bin. I don't care about how insulting it is to me - I am upset by the fact that I know Nephew likes them and they are good for him and she is depriving him of them.

Again, I feel like I'm being bitchy or judgey but I AM CONCERNED. I don't feel like they are looking after him well.

AIBUR to be extremely concerned by their behaviour?!?

OP posts:
Misfitless · 13/01/2011 02:44

I agree but come on ... OP & DP lived with DNs parents for 6 months and have listed a catalogue of neglect that occured under OP's own roof.

Baby P ... if only someone had reported their suspicions! And I appreciate my phrasing was inappropriate, but the OP doesn't just have suspicions, does she? She doesn't have to make an educated guess because she's witnessed neglect and cruelty first hand on numerous occasions.

If we know a child is being neglected or abused then there should be NO hesitation in contacting SS. If we suspect neglect the same stands IMHO. It is not OPs responsibility to gather a file of evidence and then present it to SS - that is their job. It is only OPs/joe blogg's responsibility to inform SS that something seems to be very very wrong and then leave SS to investigate and draw their own conclusions.

Family member or no family member - it should make no odds when a child is at risk. The parents kicked the DN off the bed twice FFS albeit unintentionally. They don't get up till noon...they can't be arsed changing his nappy.

Unfortunately SS don't always get it right but the least any of us should so in this circumstance is inform them. Anyway sorry for rant, OP has informed SS so why am I whittering on and on and on...Confused

Stac2011 · 13/01/2011 08:43

i agree misfitless the main issue should be whats happening to dn not how the op has gone about things imo. When it comes to children you cant always worry about upsetting others i'm afraid. I do think she has tried various angles to help and has been shot down by db and sil.

tomhardyismydh · 13/01/2011 09:48

"Baby P ... if only someone had reported their suspicions! And I appreciate my phrasing was inappropriate, but the OP doesn't just have suspicions, does she? She doesn't have to make an educated guess because she's witnessed neglect and cruelty first hand on numerous occasions."

wondered how long it would take this to be mentioned. Im afraid baby p is totally irrelevent in this case, unfortunatly baby p and his family where working with ss, so yes concernes had been raised and unfortunatly it was the poor conduct of not only ss but every service involved with this family that let him down.

But that should not cloude judgement on how ss interveen and support many families for the better. Its just a shame that he was being parented by a pathalogical liar and someone who was very clever in putting ss off the scent of his negelect and a realitivly un knowlageable sw who was leading his case. a recent change in training and development will hopefully prevent this.

Stac2011 · 13/01/2011 11:25

soz i meant i agreed about the fact op knows whats going on not about the baby p case

Misfitless · 13/01/2011 11:30

tom - you are right that was an inappropriate and misinformed comment, sorry. I should've known better. But the point remains that there have been cases where people have had suspicions but not wanted to rock any boats, not wanted to interfer, not wanted to upset the parents/carers when they should have for the sake of the child/ren.

tomhardyismydh · 13/01/2011 11:32

i agree with that point whole hartedly, good thing is that op has now reprted.

mloo · 13/01/2011 11:44

I was reported to SS for neglect, about 4 years ago.
That was very very upsetting, fair to say that it has scarred me forever.
Contact with SS can indeed be very damaging, with variable benefits.
I still loathe the person (whoever they are) who reported me.
-----
I think you did the right things OP, in every respect. You've tried to give them support and time to grow up, but it's clear that they need an enormous kick up the bottom to improve things. They would probably find some other excuse to cut you off anyway, eventually, the way they are going.

I hope that SS can drastically improve the situation for all, hopefully soon.

vixy0007 · 13/01/2011 12:03

I completly understand what you are saying in your post, only 2 weeks ago i found myself calling SS on my own sister. It is a big step to make an a very hard thing to do, but you have to put yourself in the childs shoes. He is too little to speak up himself and needs you to help, you know is not right the way he is living. SS wont just waltz in and take him away, they use it as a last resort, they will try and teach your brother an SIL how to look after him, give them any help or support they need. ( although they sound plain lazy to me SS can just say that) My sister hasnt spoken to me since i made the call, it has divided some of the family, BUT her DC are better looked after now ( they are still with her ) and they are happier. Do wha you think is best, but if you dont make hat call and something happens to your nephew which you could of prehaps helped prevent, could you deal with that?

Eglu · 13/01/2011 12:04

I hope that SS do help in some way OP. I have a firend who was told by SS to sort her house out or her children would be removed. This friend had rubbish everywhere and never cleaned or tidied. I think that SS wil ltake it seriously as the house sounds a danger to a young child.

monkeyflippers · 13/01/2011 12:17

mloo what did ss do? In what way was there thought to be neglect? Sorry, I'm nosy.

mloo · 13/01/2011 14:44

I've talked about it a lot before, you can search for my name.
If I post it again people start debating and this thread isn't about me (I don't want a thread about me, lol). To put the experience into context, I only got one small followup letter from SS saying "In our view you shouldn't let your children..." (do something that MNers have debated hotly, not unanamous(?sp) about it at all). SS didn't visit or write again.

But I still feel stigmatised, "on record", and that someone has been nice to my face and said horrid things about me behind my back. Not nice.

monkeyflippers · 14/01/2011 14:38

I found the reason mloo (after quite a bit of searching). I suppose the thing is though, is that it could have been anyone, not necessarily someone you talk to. Could just have been someone who saw your DC, didn't like what they saw and followed them home so that they would have the address to give to SS. I don't know though if that makes you feel more paranoid or less!

I do wonder when I am out and about and having a hard time with my kids that someone might think I'm a rubbish mum and report me. Plus I'm a bit of a shouter so I worry about the neighbours reporting me. I'd be mortified as I'm sure you were.

Were SS nice about it? I've never had any contact with them but did think about contacting them when I was pregnant as I had no one to look after my older DC and I thought they might be able to help. Don't know if they would have though.

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