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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBUR to be concerned (LONG)

137 replies

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:22

My SIL 'trapped' my brother into being with her by getting pregnant. My brother and I were never close, TBH I thought (think?) he was a bit of a prat for falling for it (you can be part of a childs life without marrying the bloody woman!) Nonetheless, they seemed to be OK and whatever I think of her mother, I adore my nephew, who is gorgeous and clever and wonderful (of course). However, as soon as the baby was born, things seemed to start sending me alarm signals.

Brother & SIL were living with HER mum when the baby was born. They had pet guinea pigs, which died of starvation in the days of baby coming because they forgot to feed her.

SILs mum kicked them (and baby!) out of house about three months later because they 'made too much mess', so they came to stay with me, DP and DD. I can utterly confirm that they live worse than pigs, but that's not really the point.

Nephew would be awake at 7am, be grabbed out of cot and put on end of bed until noon when parents would finally wake up (neither work). He would cry from hunger, or need to be changed, or (twice!) because he had been kicked off of the end of the bed by sleeping parents. In the end, I usually took Nephew downstairs, fed him, changed him, chatted with him, showed him the world (good morning trees!) as with my own DD before all getting dressed to go to the park or the shop or just for a wander. SIL would come down at noon (NOON! At the earliest!) and say good morning to Nephew and offer him breakfast. She would totally ignore me and DD (who seemed bemused, and a little hurt if I'm honest).

She would refuse to allow Nephew to leave the house with me and DD, often shouting and swearing "he's my baby!".

SIL never changed Nephews nappy on her own, not once the entire time she lived with us (nearly six months). It was both infuriating an terrifying to see her scream and shout at my brother to pass her the baby wipes, QUICKER or whathaveyou, and to see her scaring and upsetting Nephew, who seemed to quite enjoy being changed by anyone else, in the way that they do ("ooh! look! I'm naked! This is brilliant! Hang on, what the hells this thing?!"). But SIL seemed to make it into this massive ordeal, that she couldn't bear to do.

One one occasion, my brother shouted at me that I was an interfering whore (because DP and I are unmarried) who didn't know anything (despite having two youth and children qualifications and my own DC, two years older than theirs) and was trying to 'ruin their lives' and DP (I don't think I've ever loved him as much as I did right then) pointed out, firmly but calmly that I had housed my brother and his wife and their child, despite the financial and emotional complications for our family, that I was concerned for Nephew despite what I think of them and that I had on numerous occasions asked what I could do to better help them.

He touched on the fact that it was a "surprise" for my brother that Nephew was conceived, and pointed out that if my brother expected us to house him and some girl he'd knocked up, he could at least accord me the courtesy of keeping his own opinions about our marital status to himself. He again said that we were both v. concerned for Nephew, and also for SIL - asking that she see a doctor about possible PND. SIL flew into a rage at being called 'some girl' (they'd known each other two months when she got pregnant. DP and I had been together four years BEFORE the possibility of a DC was mentioned) and literally screaming and flailing like a the worst kind of toddler. She then (actually scarily hysterical) tried to go upstairs and wake Nephew and take him with her. We refused - to let her upstairs, partly for DD, who I knew would be awake and terrified at the shouting, never mind having SIL barge upstairs into her bedroom, but mostly for Nephew as we were concerned as to what she was going to do in the middle of the night with no money in a random village miles from anywhere. I insisted she calmed down before she could take Nephew anywhere (Brother actually agreed. He's a dick, but I think she scared even him that night) as she would just upset him. Eventually she stormed out on her own and sat on the wall outside and pinched herself black and blue.

She eventually came back in and just went straight upstairs to bed. TBH, I couldn't face more of her. She had properly scared me and I had only just calmed DD down.

On another occasion, I was washing up while DD sat on the side beside me, chatting. I splashed her and we were having a very tame waterfight (mostly her giggling trying not to fall in!) when my mother brings in Nephew who sticks his hands out to DD, who then splashes him. Slightly. It was literally about four teeny-tiny drops, flung from the tips of her fingers. It caught him right in the face and Nephew looked utterly confused for a second, and then giggled his little head off. SIL immediately charged in and SCREAMED and SWORE at DD, reducing her (and Nephew) to tears. I told her not to talk to DD like that, my mother took both the children out of the room instead. I told SIL that in this house we ASK FIRST. (I'm not averse to a bit of shouting, but this was insane screaming with no warning!) I told her that it is not appropriate to talk to any child like that, and I would not have it repeated. She refused to apologize to DD who was v. v. upset (luckily she adores her Nana, who's a bit mad and lets her do all sorts of things she isn't allowed at home, like riding the dog and sitting in the sink) and began shouting about me abusing HER baby.

There were lots of things that me and DP felt did not sit right, though we tried v. hard not to be the judgey middle-class couple looking down on their poor, unemployed relatives. They 'could not afford' to pay share of our electricity bill, or to contribute to the food in any meaningful way. They occasionally, after much asking would bring down the dirty plates and cups from their bedroom. That was as much as I could get them to contribute to the housework. Neither of them washed enough, and were both happy to cram Nephew into dirty babygros.

Despite their 'poverty' they bought CDs, games and a Nintendo DS for themselves, but nothing for Nephew. They would EACH buy about five pounds worth of sweets in the local shop EACH DAY, quite happily eating three or four mars bars with lunch and a family sized bag of malteasers after dinner. SIL constantly told me that Nephew 'wouldn't eat that' about anything. DD was two and a half at the time and was trying to be fussy about her fruit and veg, so I was giving her every kind of fruit and vegetable I could think of and I would naturally not exclude Nephew. Despite SILs protests, Nephew would happily eat almost any fruit - adored apples and plums from our own fruit trees, as well as all the other lovely things that madam DD was turning her nose up at. But SIL would LITERALLY take food from his mouth and tell me he didn't like it.

She wouldn't play with him - she was a bit like an uninterested teenage babysitter, making the token noises for about five minutes, before leaving him on the floor while she played on her Nintendo, and getting ANNOYED at him for wanting her attention, shouting "NO! MUMMY'S BUSY!" and slapping his hands.

They stayed with us for about six months, and by the end of their time (Nephew was about 9 months old) he was talking a little and saying the things he heard me say a lot (HEWWO WORLD! APPLE!!! Moooooo!). He would come to me if he fell, and he and DD were in a quite cheerful routine in the mornings, and a quite unpleasant one in the afternoon

Although DP, and I and DD missed Nephew, we were all glad to have both my brother and SIL out from under our feet.

This was over a year ago, Nephew is now nearly two and his parents have had a council flat for over a year (which is where they moved out of our house to). Saw their flat for the first time this week and was horrified. Their flat is not carpeted and there are those horrible carpet gripping rods with nails sticking out of them all around the edges of the room. There is a large TV, an Xbox and a sofa. That is almost all of the furniture. Brother and SIL bought themselves a new bed when they moved. Nephew has a STAINED second hand one, with no sheets on. There was no furniture or proper curtains in Nephews room, but there was in their bedroom.

Their house was dirty. There were about half a dozen MOULDY cups of tea on various surfaces in the living room, in places where Nephew could easily knock them over. The floor was cold and dirty and there were bits of gravel and things on it - not suitable for someone who is just learning to walk! There were also sweet wrappers everywhere on the floor which are both slippery and a choking hazard.

He can still say very few words, and 90% of them are the ones he was saying or trying to say when he left here.

When I saw him, I took him a few apples from our garden. SIL immediately threw them in the bin. I don't care about how insulting it is to me - I am upset by the fact that I know Nephew likes them and they are good for him and she is depriving him of them.

Again, I feel like I'm being bitchy or judgey but I AM CONCERNED. I don't feel like they are looking after him well.

AIBUR to be extremely concerned by their behaviour?!?

OP posts:
BextheBambi · 12/01/2011 00:35

I know it's hard as it's your brother but as everyone's said call SS. It's simply not right for a child to be brought up in that state, Prehaps SIL and Bro have PND it causes you to do some funny things but still SS can help deduce what the problem is.

Stac2011 · 12/01/2011 01:34

you were so right to call ss, and please dont let it go. If sil did have pnd they could help although as the others have said it sounds like other issues. Possessiveness isnt love its control and she is using your nephew to control the situation. The both of them are a disgrace. I hope ss help, please keep us posted. My thoughts are with you all, its not an easy thing your having to do x

NoLadyButManyBubbasAndBumps · 12/01/2011 08:56

Well done - you must feel a sense of relief although you must still be worried. Will SS call you and let you know? If they do, let us know the outcome.

tomhardyismydh · 12/01/2011 10:01

well done op you have done the right thing and it does not matter what time of day you made the call the fact is you drummed up some courage and did it.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 10:11

You do come across as being quite superior and irritating. And I fail to see was SS would do, to be honest. It seems the only people to get help from SS are those with drug problems or learning difficulties who are easy to push around.

Maybe you could suggest to them that he goes to a Council nursery, and them help them to get the ball rolling? I think that would help all of them. You would have to be very careful about how you suggested it, though.

Gotabookaboutit · 12/01/2011 10:54

You do sound smug but so what you had them living with you for 6 mths and have tried to do the best thing. They are so wrong and you have done the right thing - though I don't necessarily think it will be easy long term ;(

Tabliope · 12/01/2011 11:02

Could you and your mum not have tackled your brother over this first before phoning SS? I know my mother would have been straight onto me or my brother if we weren't bringing our kids up properly - she wouldn't have been able to help herself (and she's the least interfering person, very mild and quiet). It sounds to me - I could be totally wrong - your brother is either very weak and under your SIL's thumb or they're both on drugs. Surely if he's had the same upbringing as you there must be something decent in him, where he knows what they're doing isn't right. I think I'd have had a word with him first, even if it had turned into an argument, and told him to get his act together, sort his wife out and care for his son otherwise I'd be phoning SS. At least then he'd know he had a chance. Either way you'll probably lose your relationship (such as it is) with them. I don't think I could have helped myself having a word when they were living with me. The first time they tried to lie in bed till noon. I would have had my head round the door and told them to get up they have a child to care for. Poor little boy. Total neglect.

ShirleyKnot · 12/01/2011 11:08

Confused @ the accusations of smuggery.

OP you did the absolutely right thing.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 11:15

I also wondered if they were on drugs. It was the reference to sweets. The only people I have known (professionally) who eat as many sweets as you suggested these two do, are people with drug problems.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 11:16

ShirleyKnot, I would reserve judgement until you see what the outcome is.

Acanthus · 12/01/2011 11:18

Can you contact the HV as well?

ShirleyKnot · 12/01/2011 11:19

What are you nattering on about MommyMayhem?

I would say the OP, as we all do, has an obligation to report neglect to the relevant autorities. If it turns out that all is well then no further action will be taken by SS. To just ignore it and make a suggestion to the SIL (who is hostile towards the OP and appears to be suffering from some kind of MH issue) that she take the baby to nursery is actually LAUGHABLE.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 11:21

If the SIL finds out that the OP reported her, then that could very well damage their relationship beyond repair. I think the nephew needs the OP in his life and I would not be surprised if the SIL and DB cut off all contact. For this reason, I am inclined to think that reporting them to SS was perhaps not the best move as a first step.

ShirleyKnot · 12/01/2011 11:25

It wasn't the first step though was it? The OP has said that she has tried, and her mother has tried to tell this couple at the way they are coping with parenthood is just Not Good Enough.

They haven't listened and are (if all that the OP says is true) guilty of IMO serious neglect of this child.

I think the SIL/DB/OP's relationship comes pretty far down the list of priorities when a baby is growing up in filth and neglect.

LoopyLoopsIsNoLongerFestive · 12/01/2011 11:25

MommyMayhem, I am concerned that you claim to have professional knowledge of drug users, but have no idea of the workings of social services. I really think you should be keeping that kind of opinion to yourself, as it can be potentially very harmful to those that do need help from SS if they read that kind of nonsense and fail to seek proper assistance.

In my experience (personal as well as professional) social services, whilst imperfect, will deal with this kind of situation with the gravity it deserves. The only justifiable criticism of the OP is that it has taken her this long to seek help.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 11:30

Actually, I have been obliquely involved with SS for many, many years, hence my cynicism. Also, I am concerned about the damage that this may cause to the relationship between the OP, SIL and DB. As I said, the DN needs the OP in his life right now.

NorwegianMoon · 12/01/2011 11:33

what are you going to get ss to do? give her money for carpets?
if you call them youl never see him again, ss will come round offer a bit of help and then fuck off. she isnt actually doing that much wrong, just things you wouldnt yourself (they may not be ideal). all that will easily be hidden from ss and the child will have lost you and nanny from his life.

ideally all woul be well if they got involved but you can see from experience itl be the last contact you have with him if you do

NorwegianMoon · 12/01/2011 11:35

i eat lots of sweets. I dont have a drug problem (oh to be able to afford a drug problem!)

im not sure thats true

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 11:38

Just to clarify NorweiganMoon, most of the addicts I have had contact with eat a huge amount of sweets. However, that is not to say that people who consume a huge amount of sweets are necessarily drug addicts.

NorwegianMoon · 12/01/2011 11:40

do they do that to replicate the seratonin release similarly found in the drug use that would have got them high that they now need to make themselves feel normal? and as a result have to keep eating sweets to enjoy the seratonin release?

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 11:42

I have absolutely no idea. It was an anecdotal observation rather than a professional assertion.

NorwegianMoon · 12/01/2011 11:43

i have heard something similar is all.

Anniegetyourgun · 12/01/2011 11:44

Same here, I'm a total sweet junkie, it is my drug. I have a complete horror of mind-altering substances, don't even smoke tobacco and am law-abiding to the last degree. But I'm a fat pig, oh, and I love computer games a lot more than I love the vacuum cleaner.

ShirleyKnot · 12/01/2011 11:45

Oh right.

Honestly I find this attitude mind boggling.

"Nephew has a STAINED second hand one, with no sheets on. There was no furniture or proper curtains in Nephews room,"

I find that pretty disturbing when coupled with the grit on the floor and mouldy cups and and and....

Right now the OP is not being allowed to help is she? The SIL chucked the apples she brought round for the child in the bin.

Chatting to her SIL and Brother and trying to help and be kind and thoughtful HAVE NOT WORKED.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 11:51

If Miss Pollyanna Perfect Parent turned up on my doorstep with a basket of apples, I'd probably tell her to fuck off, too.

The point is, the SIL is obviously not coping. She does need help, but I am not sure if the OPs approach is the best approach, however honourable her intentions.

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