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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBUR to be concerned (LONG)

137 replies

DeeleyBop · 11/01/2011 21:22

My SIL 'trapped' my brother into being with her by getting pregnant. My brother and I were never close, TBH I thought (think?) he was a bit of a prat for falling for it (you can be part of a childs life without marrying the bloody woman!) Nonetheless, they seemed to be OK and whatever I think of her mother, I adore my nephew, who is gorgeous and clever and wonderful (of course). However, as soon as the baby was born, things seemed to start sending me alarm signals.

Brother & SIL were living with HER mum when the baby was born. They had pet guinea pigs, which died of starvation in the days of baby coming because they forgot to feed her.

SILs mum kicked them (and baby!) out of house about three months later because they 'made too much mess', so they came to stay with me, DP and DD. I can utterly confirm that they live worse than pigs, but that's not really the point.

Nephew would be awake at 7am, be grabbed out of cot and put on end of bed until noon when parents would finally wake up (neither work). He would cry from hunger, or need to be changed, or (twice!) because he had been kicked off of the end of the bed by sleeping parents. In the end, I usually took Nephew downstairs, fed him, changed him, chatted with him, showed him the world (good morning trees!) as with my own DD before all getting dressed to go to the park or the shop or just for a wander. SIL would come down at noon (NOON! At the earliest!) and say good morning to Nephew and offer him breakfast. She would totally ignore me and DD (who seemed bemused, and a little hurt if I'm honest).

She would refuse to allow Nephew to leave the house with me and DD, often shouting and swearing "he's my baby!".

SIL never changed Nephews nappy on her own, not once the entire time she lived with us (nearly six months). It was both infuriating an terrifying to see her scream and shout at my brother to pass her the baby wipes, QUICKER or whathaveyou, and to see her scaring and upsetting Nephew, who seemed to quite enjoy being changed by anyone else, in the way that they do ("ooh! look! I'm naked! This is brilliant! Hang on, what the hells this thing?!"). But SIL seemed to make it into this massive ordeal, that she couldn't bear to do.

One one occasion, my brother shouted at me that I was an interfering whore (because DP and I are unmarried) who didn't know anything (despite having two youth and children qualifications and my own DC, two years older than theirs) and was trying to 'ruin their lives' and DP (I don't think I've ever loved him as much as I did right then) pointed out, firmly but calmly that I had housed my brother and his wife and their child, despite the financial and emotional complications for our family, that I was concerned for Nephew despite what I think of them and that I had on numerous occasions asked what I could do to better help them.

He touched on the fact that it was a "surprise" for my brother that Nephew was conceived, and pointed out that if my brother expected us to house him and some girl he'd knocked up, he could at least accord me the courtesy of keeping his own opinions about our marital status to himself. He again said that we were both v. concerned for Nephew, and also for SIL - asking that she see a doctor about possible PND. SIL flew into a rage at being called 'some girl' (they'd known each other two months when she got pregnant. DP and I had been together four years BEFORE the possibility of a DC was mentioned) and literally screaming and flailing like a the worst kind of toddler. She then (actually scarily hysterical) tried to go upstairs and wake Nephew and take him with her. We refused - to let her upstairs, partly for DD, who I knew would be awake and terrified at the shouting, never mind having SIL barge upstairs into her bedroom, but mostly for Nephew as we were concerned as to what she was going to do in the middle of the night with no money in a random village miles from anywhere. I insisted she calmed down before she could take Nephew anywhere (Brother actually agreed. He's a dick, but I think she scared even him that night) as she would just upset him. Eventually she stormed out on her own and sat on the wall outside and pinched herself black and blue.

She eventually came back in and just went straight upstairs to bed. TBH, I couldn't face more of her. She had properly scared me and I had only just calmed DD down.

On another occasion, I was washing up while DD sat on the side beside me, chatting. I splashed her and we were having a very tame waterfight (mostly her giggling trying not to fall in!) when my mother brings in Nephew who sticks his hands out to DD, who then splashes him. Slightly. It was literally about four teeny-tiny drops, flung from the tips of her fingers. It caught him right in the face and Nephew looked utterly confused for a second, and then giggled his little head off. SIL immediately charged in and SCREAMED and SWORE at DD, reducing her (and Nephew) to tears. I told her not to talk to DD like that, my mother took both the children out of the room instead. I told SIL that in this house we ASK FIRST. (I'm not averse to a bit of shouting, but this was insane screaming with no warning!) I told her that it is not appropriate to talk to any child like that, and I would not have it repeated. She refused to apologize to DD who was v. v. upset (luckily she adores her Nana, who's a bit mad and lets her do all sorts of things she isn't allowed at home, like riding the dog and sitting in the sink) and began shouting about me abusing HER baby.

There were lots of things that me and DP felt did not sit right, though we tried v. hard not to be the judgey middle-class couple looking down on their poor, unemployed relatives. They 'could not afford' to pay share of our electricity bill, or to contribute to the food in any meaningful way. They occasionally, after much asking would bring down the dirty plates and cups from their bedroom. That was as much as I could get them to contribute to the housework. Neither of them washed enough, and were both happy to cram Nephew into dirty babygros.

Despite their 'poverty' they bought CDs, games and a Nintendo DS for themselves, but nothing for Nephew. They would EACH buy about five pounds worth of sweets in the local shop EACH DAY, quite happily eating three or four mars bars with lunch and a family sized bag of malteasers after dinner. SIL constantly told me that Nephew 'wouldn't eat that' about anything. DD was two and a half at the time and was trying to be fussy about her fruit and veg, so I was giving her every kind of fruit and vegetable I could think of and I would naturally not exclude Nephew. Despite SILs protests, Nephew would happily eat almost any fruit - adored apples and plums from our own fruit trees, as well as all the other lovely things that madam DD was turning her nose up at. But SIL would LITERALLY take food from his mouth and tell me he didn't like it.

She wouldn't play with him - she was a bit like an uninterested teenage babysitter, making the token noises for about five minutes, before leaving him on the floor while she played on her Nintendo, and getting ANNOYED at him for wanting her attention, shouting "NO! MUMMY'S BUSY!" and slapping his hands.

They stayed with us for about six months, and by the end of their time (Nephew was about 9 months old) he was talking a little and saying the things he heard me say a lot (HEWWO WORLD! APPLE!!! Moooooo!). He would come to me if he fell, and he and DD were in a quite cheerful routine in the mornings, and a quite unpleasant one in the afternoon

Although DP, and I and DD missed Nephew, we were all glad to have both my brother and SIL out from under our feet.

This was over a year ago, Nephew is now nearly two and his parents have had a council flat for over a year (which is where they moved out of our house to). Saw their flat for the first time this week and was horrified. Their flat is not carpeted and there are those horrible carpet gripping rods with nails sticking out of them all around the edges of the room. There is a large TV, an Xbox and a sofa. That is almost all of the furniture. Brother and SIL bought themselves a new bed when they moved. Nephew has a STAINED second hand one, with no sheets on. There was no furniture or proper curtains in Nephews room, but there was in their bedroom.

Their house was dirty. There were about half a dozen MOULDY cups of tea on various surfaces in the living room, in places where Nephew could easily knock them over. The floor was cold and dirty and there were bits of gravel and things on it - not suitable for someone who is just learning to walk! There were also sweet wrappers everywhere on the floor which are both slippery and a choking hazard.

He can still say very few words, and 90% of them are the ones he was saying or trying to say when he left here.

When I saw him, I took him a few apples from our garden. SIL immediately threw them in the bin. I don't care about how insulting it is to me - I am upset by the fact that I know Nephew likes them and they are good for him and she is depriving him of them.

Again, I feel like I'm being bitchy or judgey but I AM CONCERNED. I don't feel like they are looking after him well.

AIBUR to be extremely concerned by their behaviour?!?

OP posts:
fedupofnamechanging · 12/01/2011 11:57

I don't think that people should be criticising the OP for being reluctant to call SS. It must be really hard to do this when it's your own brother. She has tried so hard to be supportive and helpful and is scared of losing contact with her nephew. Is it not natural to do everything you can think of to put the situation right, and if you can't, that's when you call SS. Which is what the OP has done.

JaxTellersOldLady · 12/01/2011 11:57

I would like to ask a couple of Q's OP.

1 How old are the negligent parents?
2 What about the Gf's parents? Has anyone spoken to them in all of this and asked their view.

It sounds like your brother and his girlfriend are seriously neglecting this little boy and someone needs to do something about it. I hope that someone is you and your mother.

ShirleyKnot · 12/01/2011 12:04

Whatever Mommymayhem.

What an interesting attitude you have there for someone who, apparantly, has some kind of "professional" interest in the Social Services. I wonder whether you should be looking into work in a different sector?

I thank God for "pollyanna perfect parents" (ie those who believe that the bare minimum required to care for a child are SHEETS ON THEIR BED and a vaguely clean environment in which to live) otherwise I am sure that many many more children would die from neglect without anyone ever intervening.

Jesus.

tomhardyismydh · 12/01/2011 12:13

@ MUMMYMAYHEM

I think the best thing you can do is fuck off off this thread.

Tabliope · 12/01/2011 12:14

I wondered how old they were too. They sound young, stupid and still living a life of no responsibilities. SIL also sounds like she didn't have much of a mother (possibly) as the mother threw them out first. I think you have done the best thing OP phoning SS. However, I think you should have warned them first - when they were living with you. Yes, you've tried to help but I think the approach wasn't direct enough - after the chatting and trying to be helpful with suggestions if they're young on how to bring up a baby I think the approach should have been more black and white - by telling them sort it out or I will phone SS. I just think doing it behind their backs without any warning is not nice but the situation sounds horrific for the little boy. There should have been earlier intervention by you, your mum and her parents (even if you'd had to go round there and get them involved).

OP - have you not seen them or your nephew for a year?

FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop · 12/01/2011 12:14

Good grief. Yanbu. Sounds awful.

I'm amazed you didn't call earlier tbh.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 12:22

I am just trying to look at it from the SIL's point of view. I don't think that involving SS as a first step was a very good move. I would be very concerned at the potential damage that this could cause to the relationship between all of the parties and the impact that this will ultimately have on the child.

tomhardyismydh · 12/01/2011 12:25

but your poor misguided attitude to ss is very wrong and damaging.

it seems op has tryed to engage with the family but the neglect continues, she does not have the power or experties to contnue.

ss will wade in there saying your sis in law called us etc etc. they will have tact and knowledge of dealing with this situation, despite what you think.

tomhardyismydh · 12/01/2011 12:26

will not wade in, that should have said

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 12:31

I hope so, TomHardy, really I do. It is just that this is obviously a family in need, and I feel (rightly or wrongly) that the OP is extremely judgemental but not being particularly helpful. For instance, her opening comment about the SIL 'trapping' the DB by 'getting pregnant'. There is absolutely no way of knowing this. It is clear that the OP does not like the SIL and I wonder how much this informs her view of the SIL's parenting. The OP's attitude is a bit "look at me, aren't I a great parent" and I can imagine that the SIL found this quite difficult. The fact that the SIL is very defensive and possessive over the child, I believe, suggests that she is aware of her shortcomings as a parent.

ShirleyKnot · 12/01/2011 12:33

Do your children have sheets on their bed?

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 12:34

Yes, my children had sheets, but had they not then maybe I would have hoped that my better-off SIL would offer to buy them some. Rather than report me to SS.

atah · 12/01/2011 12:35

Only the last paragraph (about their home) is really relevant, but definetely will be a huge concern to SS.

You need to call them now for your nephews sake Sad

ShirleyKnot · 12/01/2011 12:38

You're starting to contradict yourself a bit now MM.

"If Miss Pollyanna Perfect Parent turned up on my doorstep with a basket of apples, I'd probably tell her to fuck off, too."

"I would have hoped that my better-off SIL would offer to buy them some"

You keep plugging away on behalf of the SIL there MM, I'm sure that you're right, and almost everyone else on this thread is wrong that the OP has VALID concerns and a call to the SS was the best course of action.

I'm done arguing with you about it.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 12:40

There are ways of doing things, SK. I just have this horrible feeling that if the SIL guesses - correctly - that the OP reported her, then this will be the last they see of the nephew. I am sure you will agree that that would be a tragic outcome.

OkayGrrl · 12/01/2011 12:45

MommyMayhem the Op has said that both she and her mother have offered to help the DB and SIL but they don't want it and get angry at them for offering it.

They may have felt that they were being judged but they either have to ignore it and deal with people phoning social services or they should pull their socks up and create a suitable enviroment for their child. None of us are perfect and we've all being judged by somebody sometimes we think they have a point and try and change for the benefit of ourselves and for our children and other times we think they're just been dicks.

RealityIsShaggingWithIntent · 12/01/2011 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tomhardyismydh · 12/01/2011 12:47

mommy I agree some of op did sound a bit like that and I did mention in my reply intialy she needs to filter out some of what is not relevent. Her ways should not impact the facts here that a child living like this is being neglected and requires support.

That is why op does not have the power or skills to do so, her previouse support has gone un accepted or miss read for what ever reason. there for ss need to get involved now.

Op has tryed to reach out to her family wether it has come across judgy or what ever It has failed and proffessional help is needed.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 12:49

That's very interesting, RISWI. There really needs to be some Life Skills training for these people, if they would be prepared to engage with it. Very often the individual concerned came from an equally deprived upbringing and was never taught the life skills and parenting skills required to run a home and raise a family.

monkeyflippers · 12/01/2011 12:50

I don't think you had any choice but to contact ss.

Your brother sounds not that smart and his gf is unhinged. Poor little kid! The fact that he isn't learning new words is a sign that he isn't get much interaction which if keeps going on could cause him long term development problems.

chaya5738 · 12/01/2011 12:52

I would be concerned and probably contact SS.

The only caveat is what others have said - you need to filter out what is not relevant. And I do worry about how much of your judgment is clouded by irrelevancies and prejudices. Your comment that the mother "trapped" your brother into marrying her is quite telling. I imagine she can pick up on your negativity towards her at each encounter and in the same circumstances I probably wouldn't be willing to take advice from you. THe most important thing is that you all need to work TOGETHER in the best interests of your nephew. It will involve a llot of work and I think you might need to do some apologising to her (even if deep down you think you are in the right) and try to start your relationship again with a clean slate.

I do feel very, very sad for your nephew.

MommyMayhem · 12/01/2011 12:58

The sad thing is Chaya, that by doing something as adversarial as reporting them to SS, I doubt there is any hope now of them "all working together for the sake of the nephew".

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 12/01/2011 13:01

Eh ?? What's wrong with bringing round a bag of apples ??

My uncle leaves me bags of stuff from his allotment, dosen't bother me.

chaya5738 · 12/01/2011 13:03

Re: apples. I guess it depends on the background/context. Your uncle probably hasn't told you how unhealthy your diet is etc and you probably haven't told him that you don't want your children eating applies...

Thelastnameleft · 12/01/2011 13:03

Im surprised there isnt a health visitor involved who would have picked up on these very obvious causes for concern. Is the child not seen by one OP?