To ask my friend to delay returning from maternity leave by 8 weeks?

[phonicspusher]

I am doing maternity cover for a very good friend of mine and she is planning to return to work when her baby is 7 months old. I was pregnant at the beginning of the job and would have been 36 weeks when she returned but I miscarried this baby (she knows this but is just about the only one that does). I am now pregnant again and will be 22 weeks when she returns. I now will not be eligible for maternity pay because I need to be working during week 29(mat pay is very good where we work - worth around four months salary - which would be brilliant as I have no work and no prospect of work after this!!) . Would it be unreasonable to ask her to consider delaying her return to work for 8 weeks so I could get this pay? Presumably it would be illegal to incentivise this in some way if the delay would leave her short of cash? And how will our friendship survive if she says no - I'm so incredibly anxious about money and devastated about the previous pregnancy not working out and I sort of expect her to understand this - I keed thinking "Well, I'd do it for her..."..And although obviously the thing is, please God, to have a healthy baby I do just think its like a kick in the teeth to have worked in this place for 10 years and be out by 8 weeks for maternity pay... grrrr/arrggh!!! WWYD?

Just to say that after 7 months of mat leave in the NHS you're on SMP, not salary, hence OP's idea to offer friend a month's salary. So it could have financial implications for the friend. Didn't want people thinking that NHS staff get 9 months full pay! I have worked for the same trust for years and we are entitled to 8 weeks full pay, then I think it's 18 weeks half pay + SMP and then 13 weeks SMP, then nowt til the end of the 52 weeks.

It's a good package compared to what a lot of people get but still a struggle financially for many.

I don't think it's U to bring it up and see what the friend says, but I think it's VU to think the friendship would end over it. And if it's illegal or could get the friend sacked then you mustn't do it. On the legal side would it still be wrong if phonics bought all her friend's grocery shopping etc rather than actually paying her?

I think Phonics is still (totally understandably) in quite a raw state of grief for her lost baby and is very anxious about the new baby, and money is a "safe" thing to worry about iyswim?

YABU

Maybe not to ask ( though I do think it's a bit unfair to ask) but you really sound as though you would 'blame' her if she said no

there could be many reasons why she has chosen then to return and all of them are as valid as your reasons for wanting her not too, and it is after all her job.

Apart from losing pay ( and I can't see how you giving her one months pay makes up for her losing two) it might be other reasons, for example tax credits- I timed my return to work so that I still recieved tax credits, and also as somone else mentioned childcare issues

I can't believe you'd risk your friendship over this when the problem is yours. That being said though I'm really sorry about the MC and the crappy timing of your mat leave, and I hope all goes well with this little one

I wouldn't do it, 2 months salary is a lot of money to have to find for your friend and she's probably arranged childcare etc. It's just coincidence that you actually know the person you are doing cover for, in a normal situation you wouldn't and you wouldn't have the option.

I would approach your boss and explain the situation and see if they can find you something else to do for the 8 weeks and also look into your legal options since a few people on here have mentioned that they think you should legally be on a permanent contract.

that you may have to go back early though.

Regardless of the money, I was desperate to go back to work after mat leave and would have probably killed anyone who asked me to stay off for a minute longer.

I feel for you. But yabu.

You cannot ask your friend to forego 2 months salary just because she is your friend and you lent her your old baby gear (which is what, 5 years old?) which you also will need back now. If your friend has chosen to use your old stuff, rather than buying new for her (I assume) first born, then I think that is a big indication that she needs her salary.

I fear the ask is so big that it WILL ruin your friendship. Can you bear that?

Have you asked her recently when she's going back? Might be worth checking in case she's decided to extend anyway and then I suppose you could try and carefully make your request. It's a risk though, because it's an awful lot of pressure to put on someone who's supposed to be a friend.

If she's decided to come back at 7 months but could've had longer at the same money, there must be a specific reason for choosing that time, surely? Either she is eager to come back to work or can't afford to be off? Either way, it's unfair that she should have to consider your problems too (not that your pregnancy is a problem, but it certainly isn't her problem).

It does seem ridiculous that you have done so much work but will miss out by a few weeks. It is possible to survive on basic maternity pay though (is this what you'd get? Sorry if I'm confused). That's all my company pays to anyone and I've been there five years. I've found my maternity leave tough, financially, but then I knew when I got pregnant (and my DS took a long time to get too!) what the policies were.

Of course it's not illegal to offer to pay her to stay off for longer so that you then get maternity pay. Why would it be?

Regardless of the legal ramifications (which I have no idea about) what is worrying in the OP's first post is the following.

'And how will our friendship survive if she says no - I'm so incredibly anxious about money and devastated about the previous pregnancy not working out and I sort of expect her to understand this - I keed thinking "Well, I'd do it for her..."'

She's effectively saying she can't be her friend anymore if she says no. Talk about huge emotional blackmail- I understand the OP has had had an awful time but her friend has a family, a future and a career to think of as well.
Why should she be placed in a position where she becomes the decider of OP's future? She has her own family and life. Why should the OP's situation trump hers?

Sorry OP but I think you are BU. By all means find out what your friend's plans are re maternity leave (if they have changed), but don't put such a burden on her.
As many have mentioned it could affect and job, career and finances in the long run.

Actually the more I think about this then the more unreasonable your request seems. You are making huge assumptions about her financial situation, and basically assuming that she should put your financial priorities ahead of your own, because she knows you had a mc

Haven't read all the posts but I think you would still be eligible for Maternity Allowance. You need to have worked for so long before the baby comes but not necessarily while you are pregnant (I didn't).

I'm sure your friend does understand how distressing the mc was, and feels terrible for you. But her changing her start date isn't going to take your grief away.
Her number 1 priority will be her child, and as much as she cares about you that is the way it should be. So her financial future (including her career) is really important to her childs future wellbeing. And her child has to be her priority, as much as she cares about you and your child they cannot be number 1 for her now.
If you ask her this favour and she says no, you have to be able to accept that this isn't a reflection on her feelings for you or your friendship, nor is it a lack of support for your grief at mc, or delight in any new child.

Sorry not read all posts but

I work for NHS (have done for years) changed jobs when I was 5 months pregnant so wasn't eligible for NHS mat pay but was eligible for Maternity allowance - it worked out the same for me. Also each maternity leave (and got lot less then) I returned when money ran out I couldn't afford to extend it any more

You might be lucky in that she decides she would quite like to go back later.

Also, definately look into Maternity Allowance. It's about 120 a week for 9 months.

I still don't understand this. I worked in the NHS and as far as I was aware maternity benefits kicked in after employment for a year (at 25w pg I think but dont quote me). I looked into it for a friend...this makes no sense

This isn't a problem between you and your friend - its a problem between you and your employer. Get independent advice - dont ask your friend.

Just some thoughts...
i) if you change Trusts is that counted as the same employer? Because if you changed trusts around the time of your last child then you have not been working for them for 10 years so be very clear on that because I think 8 years is the threshold where the laws change
ii) most bosses - unless complete orges - want to help good staff. Explain the situation - is there project work, sick leave you can cover, hell even just the filing until you hit the right date.
iii) dont discount the new contract - but you'll have to pitch it right/work for it don't expect it to be handed on a plate. I also got promoted at 6 months pregnant - for them it was the incentive to make sure I did come back so maybe there is something they can do as incentive for you.
iv) last resort - after all friendly options have gone - fight it tooth and nail with the Union. Personally speaking I say get advice from the Union but then see what you can work out first - bosses are still people, and people like to give if they can, not be forced into it

Good luck both with the job and the new wee one

I still don't get it, about the 10 year thing. I have been told I can not extend someone's short term contract because it would take him passed 2 years service, at which point he has all the same rights as a permanent member of staff. Not by internal rules, by law.

yes, my understanding too BRS, except i thought it was 1 year - either way it is nowhere near the 10 years the OP has. Presumably her contract is due to expire before the 25 weeks that her maternity pay will be calcuated on? In which case there are 2 issues:

• She should be getting some form of redundancy pay
• They've needed her for 10 years, and all of a sudden they don't and she happens to be pregnant? I know there are cuts at the moment, but still I'd be raising a at that.

OP I think you need to draw out a timeline to clearly explain the situation and then re-post this in employment advice.

audi how on earth do you know that 10 years of short-term contracts have suited the op and that she's passed up opportunities for permanent contracts? you clearly have no idea what it's like to work in a sector where this sort of treatment is endemic. I know plenty of people who have had to deal with this - not a single one of them has chosen it over permanent, secure contracts (who on earth would?). there is no benefit to the employee of being treated like this. people don't choose it - they put up with it - for many, complex but reasonable reasons - because they want to work in a particular sector, because they have trained to work in a particular sector, because the sector/employer offers few alternatives, because they ant to build a career and, very often, because they are actually dedicated to the sector (which is often one that benefits other people - public or NGO). Does it not occur to you (and others) how offensive it is to, effectively, blame employees for shoddy employment practice and tell them they should either suck it up or quit? would you say the same about miners in the days when their health and safety was not protected? or women in the days when they were forced to resign when they got married? they knew what they were getting into, so tough.

hatwoman that's a separate issue though. The OP is saying that if her friend doesn't do her that massive favour she might not be able to carry on with the friendship.

However difficult her situation, she can't expect a friend with a young baby of her own to potentially miss out on childcare, money, not to mention career opportunities.

it's a separate issue from the op, yes. but it was a direct response to what audi (and a couple of others) have said

Sorry I see what you mean.
It's difficult to judge the whole work situation- having re-read the thread there are bits missing re employment history/status etc making it difficult to see what the OP's position is like and what options she has.

From the first

Presumably there is a reason she had elected to come back at 7 instead of 9 months?

I would let her know the situation but don't ask, see if she offers. Say something like 'can you believe it, i'm going to miss out on maternity pay by 7 weeks, how annoying!'

But if she doesn't offer then don't be offended, it's her job after all.

You'll definitely get maternity allowance, I did after quitting my job when I was only 9 weeks pregnant.

OP, I can understand your frustration, and how upsetting it is that this is linked to your upset about your mc.

However, I really don't think it is rasonable, as others have said, to make this your friend's issue. 2 months pay is a huge consideration, plus she has presumably now secured her nursery place - not easy for babies under a year - and would have to relinquish it or pay for it.

IF she talks to you about hankering for more maternity leave, or not wanting to return to work the most you could do is say 'well if you decide to extend your mat leave, I'll be more than willing to cover, because it will mean i would be entitled to..."
Or you could possibly say 'don't suppose you want to delay your return for 2 months do you, nah, thought not?' in a v jokey way which puts her under no pressur whatsoever.

But if you ask her seriously you are really asking too much and a bit out of order, and it will almost certaibly affect your friendship - because it really is an unreasonable request.

My understanding of the 10 years thing is that each NHS trust counts as an individual employer so some of my friends have ended up getting maternity allowance rather than SMP because they haven't worked for an individual trust for long enough.

However for occupational maternity pay (ie that over and above SMP) all NHS service (regardless of which trust it was) counts. You are allowed up to 3 months between contracts without losing your continous service too.

OP you really need to speak to someone who understands the NHS rules with your specific situation. Sounds like you didn't before and lost out. Don't do it again and don't prejudice you friendship before you've sought proper advice.