To ask my friend to delay returning from maternity leave by 8 weeks?

[phonicspusher]

I am doing maternity cover for a very good friend of mine and she is planning to return to work when her baby is 7 months old. I was pregnant at the beginning of the job and would have been 36 weeks when she returned but I miscarried this baby (she knows this but is just about the only one that does). I am now pregnant again and will be 22 weeks when she returns. I now will not be eligible for maternity pay because I need to be working during week 29(mat pay is very good where we work - worth around four months salary - which would be brilliant as I have no work and no prospect of work after this!!) . Would it be unreasonable to ask her to consider delaying her return to work for 8 weeks so I could get this pay? Presumably it would be illegal to incentivise this in some way if the delay would leave her short of cash? And how will our friendship survive if she says no - I'm so incredibly anxious about money and devastated about the previous pregnancy not working out and I sort of expect her to understand this - I keed thinking "Well, I'd do it for her..."..And although obviously the thing is, please God, to have a healthy baby I do just think its like a kick in the teeth to have worked in this place for 10 years and be out by 8 weeks for maternity pay... grrrr/arrggh!!! WWYD?

Have you been issued notice? I was under the impression that if you had been employed continuously for more than 2 years then they would have to redeploy/make redundant at the end of a fixed term contract. So you should have received notice 6 months before the fixed term end date on this.

I don't particularly think it's wrong to ask your friend, but I think you'd be better taking the issue up with your employer if the facts are as stated here.

YABU. Lending her your cot etc does not entitle you to 2 months of her salery.

I would do it for a friend...I just would.

Well I see your point a bit Hogsback, however I do think there is deception in asking her friend to extend benefits for the OP's sake, not her friends family's sake( the reason for benefits in the first place) Especially given that the OP has said her friend had made plans to return in the 7th month and I would assume had told her employer this as it would affect the short term contract date(s) they needed to arrange. Changing a return date now is shady and deceptive. Just because the employer might be wrong for using short term contracts, does not give the OP a moral right to cheat them out of benefits she is not entitled to.

Also I see people jumping all over the employer and calling them shady for having short term contracts, but the OP seemed to have not problems working for them for that length of time, in those positions. She likely passed up permanent positions/other opportunities during that time frame as the short term contract route seemed her best bet to get to the position she ultimately wanted. She now regrets this as her choices have left her without benefits she would like. This is not the employers fault, nor is it her friends responsibility.

If the OP is entitled to some sort of employment redress in the way of benefits because she has been jerked around with contracts, then she should by all means fight for those benefits through the proper channels. Not entertain deceptive ideas to 'get back' at a system she feels cheated by and put a friend in such a horrible position.

Wimpole I would do it if I could easily afford it and it was not going to compromise my job or prospects. What if there is a promotion coming up she would miss out on? 2 months salery is a huge amount and it is unfair to ask a friend to forgo it for you. You might as well ask if she can just give you some money, because effectively that's what it is.

I think the only way this could have been done would have been for the OP to say, in passing, at around week 12, 'It's a shame I wont be working at week 29 and therefore elligable for pay' and left it at that. What she wants to do is ask her friend to forgo 2 months salery. I would do it if I could, but I would never ever ask.

It is only fradulent if this is something that the employer does not allow and it is concealed by the employees for their own financial benefit.

The question really is, what could the employer do if the circumstances are disclosed openly? This would be straight gross misconduct under my contract as they can treat obtaining/attempting to obtain a pecuniary advantage at the expense of the employer as gross misconduct.

I don't know the ins and outs of 'fradulent' exactly but I would imagine that in my circumstances it would be considered fradulent if I didn't disclose. Instant dismissal either way.

Gross misconduct clauses vary so you would need to look at your own in detail. At the very minimum, being open about it is likely to annoy the employer and lot and severely hamper long term prospects at the company. Keeping quiet means you're effectively asking your friend to lie for you.

For that reason, it's simply too much to ask of a friend. Even by asking you're putting her in a situation where she has to decide whether to report the conversation or not.

I have sympathy for your situation but YABU

annoy the employer a lot

I can understand why you are struggling with this decision - it sounds really hard and I can see why you are tempted to ask you friend.

I don't think you should outright though.

I would probably just mention to her that you are concerned and ask her advice as to whether you think you should go an speak to HR about it (or some other idea). Speaking to HR may well be a good option for you anyway.

That way she will be fully aware of the situation (maybe not immediately - it may fully dawn on her later) and she can make an honest decision based on what it also suitable for her, without being under any direct pressure.

If you don't make her aware in some way, then the risk of her not fully realising the consequences and returning to work when she may have been very happy to have an extra 8 weeks on maternity leave.

I would guess though, that her choice to return at 7 months pp is related to her finances (as she clearly knows she has cover for a bit longer if needed) and it would be very unfair of you to ask her directly.

Op,i you work for the nhs for a period of two years or longer on a short term contract then they have to offer you a full time contract. This happened to my dh and that is how he ended up with a permanent job iirc

Audi4prez if the circumstances are as described it is very much her employers 'fault' in terms of UK employment law.

SeaTrek - unless the OP has an enormous amount of sublety her friend is going to work out what's she's on about. I would in five seconds. Then she's put her friend in a very difficult situation.

dont ask her but do ask your employer to keep you contracted for 8 weeks.

You are also assuming that if your friend did extend her ML then they would extend your contract to cover.

This might not be the case at all. With all the cut backs employers are making at the moment they might well already have urplus staff who they would move into this position or knowing you are pregnant and the position re mat pay just issue a new short term contract to another agency worker.

"Op,i you work for the nhs for a period of two years or longer on a short term contract then they have to offer you a full time contract. This happened to my dh and that is how he ended up with a permanent job iirc"

is this only true if contract is offered with out interview or is to cover as a secondment? I think there has been a change to this over the past year or so.

If she is such a good friend why don't you already know how she feels about returning to work? She might think she has to rush back so you can rest at the end of your pregnancy bearing in mind your previous loss.

I see no reason that you can't chat to her about how she feels about going back to work and when and why. This is a conversation I hhave had with pregnant and new Mum friends on many occasions. In fact it's a huge topic that I think that all wanted to discuss.

Do not put her in the position of having to choose, in fact if baby isn't born yet she probably soesn't know how she feels about it, or may change her mind later.

Chat to her in general terms about the if and when and how of returning to work, but do not mention your proposal unless she says she is rushing back because of you.

Far more importantly SHOULD you be workiing up to week 29, have you spoken to your GP/consultant etc?

As someone said they might still want you to go as planned so it's a risk on all sides.

"try getting a new contract when you are 5 months pregnant... not going to happen."

I was hired at 5 months pregnant when I also had a 1 and 3 year old at home. If you're good enough people will fight to have you.

You really need to look past the emotion of this to determine what your rights are.

As many many others have said you are a de facto permanent employee and when the contract ends will be in a redundancy situation. This will mean redeployment/redundancy.

I think pregnant women get extra protection in a redundancy situation so in theory you should be redeployed to an alternate role and the problem will be solved.

If you aren't then you will get redundancy pay or your could raise a greivance claiming sex discrimination - i.e you would have got another job other than for fact you are pregnant. It is a brave employer that makes a pregnant woman redundant in a situation like this!

I think it's mean. Your friend is going back to work because she needs the money. Are you a nurse? You're putting both your jobs at risk?

I seriously doubt that she's returning to work at 7 months rather than 9 months out of anything other than financial reasons. So in asking her this would put her in a difficult situation.

I don't really understand the terms of your contract, but it does seem that you were aware of these at the time of becoming pg. I know that after a miscarriage your mind was probably all over the place, and sorry for your loss. But personally I wouldn't have planned a pregnancy knowing of financial terms in my contract which were unacceptable to me

OP-consult the union or HR asap. You need properly informed info. My experience in working for the NHS is that a lot of ILL informed people speak a lot of shit as if they are WELL informed. Unfortunately the same will happen on an internet forum. Your contractual allowances are a LEGAL matter and they need to be explored with some seriousness by an expert.

Work side of things sounds like a mess.

YANBU to consider mentioning it to your friend but YABU to consider it (it's a huge ask!) when you have not received the full legal advice re:your rights.

audi:

The employer cannot make any plans based on a presumed return date and cannot ask the employee when they are returning. Any return before 52 weeks is considered an early return and the employee must give 8 weeks notice, however they are then free to cancel the early return for any reason or none. The employer will have made maternity cover arrangements on the basis that the OP's friend will be taking 52 weeks off, therefore no operational loss. As the employer will have planned for the OP's friend to take 52 weeks, and will be aware of the OP's right to maternity pay after 25 weeks, there is no net financial loss. If the OP's friend chooses to return before 52 weeks then the employer will make a financial gain but absence of a gain is not a loss.

Maternity cover contracts are made on the basis of full 52 week cover (with a termination clause should the leave-taker return early), so the possibility that the covering employee (the OP in this case) may get pregnant during this period is factored in.

janet41:

OP is an employee, not a contractor. What has tax got to do with it? You are confusing an employee on a short-term contract with an independent contractor, in which case IR35 etc would be a factor. I'm sure the OP pays PAYE just like any other employee.

I would mention your situation (to the right kind of friend - only you will know that) but very carefully - you wouldn't want it sounding like a demand.

I was initially planning to take 6 months maternity leave with DD and ended up extending to 9 months - I was living on SMP plus some savings, but my costs were a lot less than I had thought they would be and I was having such a good time I really didn't want it to end. So you may well find she wants to extend her time anyway and it all happens naturally without any scheming on your part. Sometimes tricky situations have a lovely way of simply resolving themselves quite well.

If she doesn't want to extend, simply to suit you I think it would be very churlish of you to let it affect your relationship.

do not ask your friend

speak to HR about getting another contract

If indeed she'll get the same pay up to 9 months and is only taking 7 months you could casually ask if she's still intending to do that, but it would be unfair on her to bring up your being pregnant with her. It's got nothing to do with her and should not be a consideration on her plans. Sounding her out subtley would do no harm though.

If it is the NHS don't speak to HR speak to you union. If you don't pay for a union more fool you.

NHS HR departments bugger up mat. leave all the time. Virtually all of my friends have had to get the BMA involved to sort it out. Unison appear to be a much better union as they don't appear to be conflicted about whether they should be representing their members employment rights or acting as a public health information service. Therefore, if they are your union, I would hope you would get good advice.

Speak to junior docs (if you know any) who have babies - we are always on short term contracts with frequent changes of employing trust and people's maternity leave gets very complicated as a result. Sounds like this was the problem last time.