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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can we agree on one thing?

229 replies

Serendippy · 07/01/2011 15:28

The simple act of staying at home to look after your children or going out to work does not mean you have the harder life. Some people enjoy their jobs, some don't. Some people enjoy being at home with their children, some don't. So 'going out to work' is not necessarily harder than staying at home and vice versa.

I hate hearing the phrase, 'Being a SAHM is the hardest job' because that is clearly not universally true. If you left a job which you hated with long hours and colleagues you didn't get on with, it can be a relief to be at home. OTOH, if you left a stimulating job with lovely colleagues and friends and that you enjoyed, it could be boring to be at home with children.

Yes, if you go out to work, lots of 'SAHM jobs' still need to be done, but the job of looking after the children during the day is not one of them, you pay someone else to do it. So although it is not a job as in paid employment, it is something that needs to be done by somebody.

I really think that how hard your 'job' is depends on the circumstances.

AIBU to think that we can agree that sweeping statements such as 'I am a SAHM/WOHM so therefore I automatically have the harder life' are not accurate or helpful?

OP posts:
hmc · 07/01/2011 23:26

Frankly if I want to sit on my arse all day doing nothing between 9-3 that is nobody's business but mine and my dh's.

scottishmummy · 08/01/2011 00:03

if your dh finances your sitting on yer arse thats a private transaction so long as you dont claim jsa

out of interest whats the satisfaction in sitting on arse doing sweet fa all day?

BuzzLightBeer · 08/01/2011 00:35

I wouldn't mind giving it a lash to find out! Grin

jadziadax · 08/01/2011 02:25

Perhaps this debate wouldn't be so polarizing if childcare was ranked higher in the societal heirarchy of things that are important.

Eg of several conversations I had while on maternity leave:
Other Person, "So, what do you do?

Me, "Oh, mostly I take care of my daughter, I also look out for my Gran, she's getting frail. I do some baking, keep a journal, read the paper, you know, life stuff."

Other person, "Um, what did you do before you had your daughter?"

Me, Hmm

Eg of several conversations I've had since returning to work pt:
Other Person, "So, what do you do?

Me, "Oh, mostly I take care of my daughter, I also look out for my Gran, she's getting frail. I do some baking, keep a journal, read the paper. Work one or two shifts as a nurse at the weekend, you know, life stuff."

Other person, "So you're a nurse."

Me, Hmm

cloudydays · 08/01/2011 03:50

"What on earth is wrong with staying hOme and raising your own children (rather than someone else raise them) - why do so many women view this negatively? It is natural and normal to raise your children and children benefit frOm having a mother or father at home raising them if possible"

Aaaarrrgggghh. I'm going to be repeating myself from another thread, but I'm sorry, it has to be said.

Firstly, I agree with the OP and think it's incredibly presumptuous and downright ignorant to make sweeping statements about what other people's lives must be like. While nobody can really speak for anyone but herself, in my view there are valid points to be made on all sides of the issue about how difficult, rewarding, or important working outside home and/or staying at home with children can be.

What I really can't stand, though, is when people refer to childcare as someone else "raising" or "bringing up" or "rearing" a working mother's children.

Mothers and fathers (obviously there are exceptions, sometimes it's grandparents, foster parents etc.) are the ones who raise, bring up, and rear their children.

Day care providers and childminders are minding children for their parents, they aren't raising them. To be clear, I completely understand the idea of wanting to be a SAHM because you're reluctant to have the minder have such a large role / influence in your child's life, and because you don't want to miss out on precious time and milestones. I think that's a valid and important consideration.

But in my view, language matters, and to say that WOHMs are not raising, rearing, or bringing up their children is both insulting and just plain inaccurate.

From the age of 5 to the age of 18, most of our children will spend the bulk of their waking hours most days in the care of their teachers. Would we be happy to say that our children are being raised by a series of teachers? That we raised them just until they were five, and then the school did the rest? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous and terribly disrepectful of our irreplaceable position in our childrens' lives.

Raising your children goes beyond the quantity of time you spend in their physical presence. It means providing for them, being responsible for making the decisions (both short- and long-term) that affect their well-being, communicating your values and beliefs to them, and most importantly being committed to them and to their best interests from the moment they arrive to you all the way to adulthood, and beyond.

The question of whether one parent will stay home with the children or whether both will go out and work is a unique question for every single family, as unique as the circumstances and value systems that must inform the decision. So a parent who works outside home while I stay at home, or one who stays at home while I go out to work, has not answered the same question that I faced in a different way. S/he faced a different question entirely, and it is therefore not my place to judge her or to make assumptions about her life.

It is a decision that only the parents can make (if, of course, they're lucky enough that it comes down to choice). Like all major decisions about their children, it's the parents' place to make this one because they are the ones who are raising their children.

cloudydays · 08/01/2011 03:50

Sorry so long. Gets my goat.

thumbwitch · 08/01/2011 04:19

Ha. just remembered that I HATED being asked what I did when I was WAHM as I had two jobs and was looking after DS - one job was me being self-employed, the other was a multi-tasking job at a private college, both of which jobs I had done for several years prior to DS coming along. Filling in application forms for anything was a complete PITA as they only wanted my main occupation - which was mostly looking after DS, but that "didn't count". Hmm

I don't like being defined by my job, never did.

MargaretGraceBondfield · 08/01/2011 09:04

scottishmummy Fri 07-Jan-11 22:35:08
"precious moments mamas finger paint,make cakes,do craft have widdle ones velcroed to them and never miss a "precious moment".they catch tadpoles in jars,go long walks and jolly muddy boots"

Yes this is me, we have lovely days and lots of smiles, except for the velcro as nurturing my dcs this way seems to have fostered a great deal of independence....especially at pre school when they were the first to get their own shoes on. It's weird that anyone would berate a mother, or father (although not much discussion on here about them) for wanting to create this sort of childhood for their children. My children are really happy and ambitious.

TandB · 08/01/2011 09:08

Taffetacat - the belly and tiger thing. I do that. Quite often actually. That is probably why DS regularly lifts my t-shirt, flobbles my stomach and gos "uh oh."

I thought he was being offensive but he is actually in awe of the power of the belly.

wukter · 08/01/2011 09:14

There's snideness and sneering on both sides, people just notice when it's aimed at their own situation. Don't need to justify your own decision to anyone.

pagwatch · 08/01/2011 09:19

Margaret

I suspect that scottishmummy doesn't give a toss if you parent like that. Good for you.

I suspect that she was talking about those who parent like that and then approach anyone who parents differently as if they are failing, are parenting poorly or not as well as she/he.

It isn't the style ofarenting. It is the judge lecturing promotion of it.

But I am a bit scared now to be paraphrasing scottishmummy...........

Grin
pagwatch · 08/01/2011 09:25

Exactly wukter.

Equally dished out all over the place , usually in passive aggressive styleee.

No one says 'don't stay at home/ don't work.
They say 'i couldn't be at home - my brain would turn to cheese and ooze out of my ears'
Or ' I couldn't work, I found the idea of abandoning my child to strangers at 8 weeks just too difficult'

It is odd really when you think mn tends to dislike passive aggressive behaviour. But tis a good indicator as to where all the passive aggressive judgy mils come from

MargaretGraceBondfield · 08/01/2011 09:29

Do you think? Gosh I hope so. I would imagine the holier than thou worthy Mummy is as painful to the working parent as the hard nosed career don't you contribute to society mother to a SAHM!!

Perhaps I read SM as an attacker of others and not a defender of her own position.

I genuinely thought that people that look down on others for their own choices were only on MN, and then I met an anaesthetist, a mother at dd's pre school, she assumed because I wear make up and look smart that I must work! This was amusing for both of us, we're now good friends, however her neighbour who is a SAHM has made many digging comments about her working 2.5 days a week and abandoning her poor little boys....I mean who could do such an evil thing?

TBH I honestly think, aside from the extremes, the people that peer into other people's lives with a view to judge generally should be fixing their own.

MargaretGraceBondfield · 08/01/2011 09:42

Pag...Don't you think, on such an emotive issue, that whatever you say, however your choice is justified it's a slight at someone else?

So even 'I love being with my children', sounds like 'I love being with my children more than you like being with yours'.

pagwatch · 08/01/2011 09:45

I think that is right. But equally I think when so many loaded comments are intentionally posted people are more likely to see slights that are not there.
The whole conversation gets tainted by the few that are deliberately snide.

geezmyfeetarecold · 08/01/2011 09:46

hmc I DO sit on my arse between 9-3. Well, yesterday I went to tesco for a bit to buy a birthday present for my ds' manic social life, but not much else.

MargaretGraceBondfield · 08/01/2011 09:49

So Does everyone now think this is the last MN WOHM/SAHM debate? Grin

wukter · 08/01/2011 09:50

Why certainly Margaret. Consensus has been reached - what's left to say?

geezmyfeetarecold · 08/01/2011 10:00

I thnk whats left to say ,for me,is that if I had ever had a daughter; I would recommend part time work. Best of both. Worst of both.

Chandon · 08/01/2011 10:00

if someone would have accused me of "sitting on my arse all day" when I was a SAHM with a (often) sick 3 year old and a colicky baby, living in a 3rd world country, getting all kinds of tropical bugs, miles away from anyone I knew, and with DH away on business travel half the time... I would have shot them. happily.

People keep on making judgements based on their own life. So if they have, say two easy going children, live in the first world, and have no sickness in the family, they assume ALL SAHP have an easy life.

Anyone claiming ALL SAHMs have it easy really need to sea a bit beyond their pen.

try walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

Serendippy · 08/01/2011 10:01

The consensus seems to be that everyone works harder than me and I don't understand how awful life is for them. I would agree with that Grin

OP posts:
Chandon · 08/01/2011 10:03

see, not sea Blush

pagwatch · 08/01/2011 10:06

Actually I win that particular trophy...

cat64 · 08/01/2011 12:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

bronze · 08/01/2011 13:25

You're right Cat. I know I have been very defensive but looking at it it's probably I have got a grumpy arse of a husband at the moment. Hes just given up smoking and finding it hard. It means home is more tense, so I am more sensitive.

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