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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that children shouldn't be screaming and running around in a library?

378 replies

PeeringIntoAFestiveVoid · 06/01/2011 21:32

I have a feeling I'm going to get toasted to a perfect 'well done' shade of brown here.... Grin

I went to the library with DD today, and as we came in, there was a woman with a pushchair standing at the desk. As I was returning our books (not at the desk) and browsing, there were two children running around, screaming and shouting - the younger boy looked about three, the older boy five or so. They seemed to be with the mum at the desk, as she occasionally ssshhhed them (of which they took no notice at all). There was an older boy who looked to be six or seven, who joined in with the shouting and running from time to time, but wasn't causing the same chaos as the littler ones. The toddler had an utterly ear piercing shriek (I really can't stand shrill noises, so I realise I'm less tolerant of this kind of thing than many people), which he was letting rip frequently and very very loudly. There was a bloke there who I presumed to be their dad, as he sometimes spoke to them and called them over, but they didn't pay any attention at all, and he didn't push it or try to moderate their behaviour.

I joined DD in the children's section, and the two boys were running in and out of that area (then across the library to mum at the desk again). They were fighting, very vociferously, over a bottled drink, a fair bit of which got spilled on the floor. Several books were also knocked onto the floor. A couple of other children were sitting on the covered seats/cushions, and were intimidated by them rolling around, shouting and fighting. I was feeling very Hmm and wondered why the staff didn't point out to the mum that this wasn't ok behaviour.

As we checked our books out, the toddler screamed very loudly right behind me. I said "God almighty" and turned round, and the mum was walking past me with all four children. She said "What?? He's only two". I said "They've been running around screaming and fighting for the last twenty minutes. This is a library". She said "I don't care" to which I replied "Clearly; if you cared about other people, you wouldn't let your kids run around screaming and fighting". The woman walked off to the children's section.

I thought about what had happened, and thought maybe I'm completely out of sync with what's acceptable in libraries these days. As I was leaving I went to the desk and said "I know libraries aren't the solemn, silent places of the seventies, and I'm really glad about that, but is that now acceptable behaviour for children in a library? Am I way off the mark on what is ok?". The librarian said that the woman was joining the library, and that she had four children who'd never been in the library before (one was a babe in pushchair, obviously), so they didn't say anything to her. She looked quite Hmm at me.

I can see her point, and am wondering whether I was BU to say what I did. But to me, wherever I was I wouldn't let my children run around fighting and emitting ear-splitting shrieks, let alone in a library. I know it's not a sacred sanctum, but a library is supposed to be someone where you can go for peace and quiet to enjoy books.

So AIBU?

OP posts:
bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 12:51

Fanjo, like I said earlier, it depends how the parent reacts to their DC being a little excitable. If parent sits smiling beatifically whilst everyone else is getting irritated then they deserve to be pulled up. If it's obvious that you're aware of it and are trying your best then no-one except the uber-intolerant will care. I understand your DD has SN, I have zero experience of dealing with SN children, I don't know what your method is of trying to stem excessive liveliness, shall we say? GrinI'm sure that no-one will give a toss if like you said previously you try your hardest to control things.

MyrrhyBS · 07/01/2011 12:52

I have to admit that I very rarely use our library now, because I can't always control my seemingly normal son (who has Asperger syndrome). NOT that I'm implying that there was anything particularly special needs about these children.

I find it hard to deal sometimes with not only HIS behaviour but the people who see fit to tell me I should be controlling him. :(

And it isn't just libraries either :(

Angeliz · 07/01/2011 12:57

Well Fanjo, as you said, you try and control her behaviour.
The Mums next to me were very happily chatting over their coffee and ignoring the kids.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 13:12

our method is often just "go outside", sadly

BuzzLightBeer · 07/01/2011 13:14

Fanjo if both of you sit there doing nothing while y our child ruins other peoples enjoyment, then I'm afraid so. Otherwise, not so much.

There is a big difference between parents who could obviously not give a shite about their kids behaviour and how it affects others, and parents who for one reason or another find it difficult to control one or more children. I have a wild child, nobody expects perfection, just the basic respect for other people.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 13:15

oh no, we don't do nothing, I'm just sure people are judging us, and her, for her "wildness" is all, very rarely go out now.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 13:15

very rarely go out to EAT I mean.

BuzzLightBeer · 07/01/2011 13:16

well they can fuck off then Wink I have plenty of sympathy, I'm sick of staying in because I need another adult to control just the one of my 3 children. Sad

charliesmommy · 07/01/2011 13:19

If I am somewhere and getting disrupted by unruly kids, I find I have a lot more patience and sympathy if the parents are actively doing something to make them behave, and not just sitting there ignoring it and letting them get on with it as that to me indicates what sort of person the parent is (selfish), and what sort of person the child will grow up to be (selfish)...

Angeliz · 07/01/2011 13:21

Fanjo, i really personally think there's a huge difference if i hear a Parent TRY and get the child to behave.
Mine aren't perfect by a long shot and it's only now they're a bit older i attempt more to go out. It was just too stressful all round for a while with two the ages they were.
I am sure most people don't judge when there is a child with special needs and their Parent is trying their best, or children misbehaving and the Parents are trying.

What annoys me is the scenario i said, it really was madness and the waitresses couldn't do their jobs and the Mums couldn't give a hoot.

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 13:25

Hell, my DS has shown me up on numerous occasions at various eateries around the British Isles. The pinnacle performance being changing the words to "show me show me your groovy moves" from Show Me, Show Me to "Mummy, SHOW ME SHOW ME YOUR BOOBIE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBS!" in Pizza Express, shortly followed by him shouting to a robust waitress that he wondered if she had a baby in her belly or if she just likes too much cakes and ice cream [bush] Blush Blush

The meal was ended abruptly after taking DS ahtside for a word. I hope it was obvious to other diners that I was trying to get a handle on his unruly ways :(

GeorgeT · 07/01/2011 13:27

I work in a library and we certainly aim to make our library child friendly and have many activities for children. Sometimes it is very noisy as we have up to 70 children in the holidays attending our actvities. That said, I do feel that children should be kept under reasonable control. However we do also have parents who use the PCs who take little notice of their children. Most of the time the library is calm but days of shh shhing are definitely over. The vast majority of families are fantastic, there will always unfortunately be a few who aren't.

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 13:28

BTW DS is 3, just thought I'd mention it in case you were thinking he was about ten and abusing waitresses...

Ormirian · 07/01/2011 13:29

Ahhh bupcakes - I think I'd have enjoyed that performance Grin

Trubert · 07/01/2011 13:33

Ok, have just come back to this thread.

What lovely posts these are.

'why do you allow them to run around?

you wouldnt allow them to run around in a car park, or on the main road, so why allow them to run around in a place where other people may be trying to concentrate?'

'I'm sorry but if you (general you) can't control your children (within reason) then perhaps you shouldn't be having them.'

In order for me to force an excited toddler to sit down quietly, I am going to have to hold the toddler down, or at least hold its hand. I frequently do this. However, I cannot exchange two piles of books and find my library card whilst simultaneously holding two children.

Obviously I now see I shouldn't have had children. Mea culpa.

But if it makes you feel any better, I actually haven't been to the library for six months because I felt the kids were getting a bit too lively.

I think its lovely that some mothers just have to want to have perfectly behaved children, and lo and behold! they have them.

Unfortunately, I seem to have the wrong kind of children. Despite my best efforts they are still learning to do as they are told and sit quietly.

Again, I see that I shouldn't have had them, since I can't control them at the age of two. You'll be glad to hear I'm not planning on having any more.

BuzzLightBeer · 07/01/2011 13:36

did you not notice the parents of unruly children agreeing with the OP. Some children are wild, but that doesn't mean you can just not bother Hmm

Trubert · 07/01/2011 13:37

Did you not read my post? At which point do you feel I made it clear that I just don't bother?

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 13:38

the problem for us is, noone thinks small children have SN unless they are very visible, first instinct is just that they are naughty.

Anyway I am well aware that this is somewhat deviating from the original point of the thread. Smile

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 13:39

also, since I am aware that people like to hear parents TRYING to make their children behave, I have often in the past had to loudly "tell off" DD, even though she couldn't understand a word of it or why I was doing it, felt awful.

pamelat · 07/01/2011 13:42

I opened this thread scared it was about me!! I took DD (almost 3) and DS (7 months) to a library yesterday and DD and her play mate (3.5) were quite "naughty", not particulary loud and in the play section but both "tantrummed" at least twice. We did keep an eye on them, tell them off etc, but our focus was more on the 7 month olds.

DD had taken 20 ish books from the shelves and put them in the play house but obviously my friend and I tidied up at the end.

I think its unreasonable to expect "quiet" but I do think the behaviour you have described is worse than that which should be tolerated, especially as it sounds like they had another adult present who could have stopped it, or at least tried Grin

charliesmommy · 07/01/2011 13:43

but Trubert, why would a toddler get excited about going into a library? it isnt visibly a play area to suddenly run around in..

I have taken a 2yr old into one many times, and she was told before we went in, no running, no shouting.

The same goes for any shop. The rule is behave appropriately or you are back in the buggy.

If a child is old enough to be walking around, they are usually able to understand to stand still and be quiet for a short length of time.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 13:43

anyway am off to a soft play birthday party today (DD's second invite in 4 years) she will love it, I don't know anyone there and all the other kids will be NT so it will be interesting!

Angeliz · 07/01/2011 13:45
Sad that's really sad Fanjo and i hope that i wouldn't make anyone feel like that.
grumpypants · 07/01/2011 13:47

Weirdly, thinking about how the response has been that parents should try to control unruly dcs, I got such a 'look' and 'tut' from some woman with a small, perfect, girl when I shouted to the two smallest boys to 'stop running now!' Loudly, as we were directly in front of three lifts, two doors to multistorey carpark and several shops.
(She actually stopped and stared at me - and I so don't shriek/smack/do the fishwife thing so am pretty calm looking.)
Was so shocked she couldn't see the need for my raised voice!

GabbyLoggon · 07/01/2011 13:47

Peeringin....yes it can be a problem in libararies. My library controls it well..
Not just children; but some teenagers dont play the library game. It is not a question of being harsh with children. Just saying to
the parent "Can I help the noise is causing a problem"

you get some funny dramas in libraries.

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