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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that children shouldn't be screaming and running around in a library?

378 replies

PeeringIntoAFestiveVoid · 06/01/2011 21:32

I have a feeling I'm going to get toasted to a perfect 'well done' shade of brown here.... Grin

I went to the library with DD today, and as we came in, there was a woman with a pushchair standing at the desk. As I was returning our books (not at the desk) and browsing, there were two children running around, screaming and shouting - the younger boy looked about three, the older boy five or so. They seemed to be with the mum at the desk, as she occasionally ssshhhed them (of which they took no notice at all). There was an older boy who looked to be six or seven, who joined in with the shouting and running from time to time, but wasn't causing the same chaos as the littler ones. The toddler had an utterly ear piercing shriek (I really can't stand shrill noises, so I realise I'm less tolerant of this kind of thing than many people), which he was letting rip frequently and very very loudly. There was a bloke there who I presumed to be their dad, as he sometimes spoke to them and called them over, but they didn't pay any attention at all, and he didn't push it or try to moderate their behaviour.

I joined DD in the children's section, and the two boys were running in and out of that area (then across the library to mum at the desk again). They were fighting, very vociferously, over a bottled drink, a fair bit of which got spilled on the floor. Several books were also knocked onto the floor. A couple of other children were sitting on the covered seats/cushions, and were intimidated by them rolling around, shouting and fighting. I was feeling very Hmm and wondered why the staff didn't point out to the mum that this wasn't ok behaviour.

As we checked our books out, the toddler screamed very loudly right behind me. I said "God almighty" and turned round, and the mum was walking past me with all four children. She said "What?? He's only two". I said "They've been running around screaming and fighting for the last twenty minutes. This is a library". She said "I don't care" to which I replied "Clearly; if you cared about other people, you wouldn't let your kids run around screaming and fighting". The woman walked off to the children's section.

I thought about what had happened, and thought maybe I'm completely out of sync with what's acceptable in libraries these days. As I was leaving I went to the desk and said "I know libraries aren't the solemn, silent places of the seventies, and I'm really glad about that, but is that now acceptable behaviour for children in a library? Am I way off the mark on what is ok?". The librarian said that the woman was joining the library, and that she had four children who'd never been in the library before (one was a babe in pushchair, obviously), so they didn't say anything to her. She looked quite Hmm at me.

I can see her point, and am wondering whether I was BU to say what I did. But to me, wherever I was I wouldn't let my children run around fighting and emitting ear-splitting shrieks, let alone in a library. I know it's not a sacred sanctum, but a library is supposed to be someone where you can go for peace and quiet to enjoy books.

So AIBU?

OP posts:
zoezebraa · 07/01/2011 10:08

Didnt realise a FRUIT SHOOT was involved Shock

charliesmommy · 07/01/2011 10:08

LeClaire, why should your child be allowed to "express themselves" when it is causing disruption and a nuisance to others. I dont want to be disturbed by your, or any other child "expressing themselves" unless I was in a playground or similar where it is normal behaviour. Would you allow your children to run around a church, because "they are excited".. Children need to be taught there is a time and place to run around, and time when it is expected that they stand still and be quiet.

earwicga · 07/01/2011 10:11

Clearly you are being VR. Clearly only Stepford women and Stepford children should be allowed in libraries. Yay for you!

As the mother was busy, could you not have told the children to behave? Or do Stepford women not do that. Just sark.

Bogeyface · 07/01/2011 10:14

My mum works at the library here and they regularly get parents dropping young kids of (aged 4 or 5 is not unusual) while they go off shopping! The staff then have to deal with these kids screaming and shouting, or crying etc.

They are having to bring in an official protocol on it including ringing the police if a child is alone, because it is such a potentially dangerous thing to do.

charliesmommy · 07/01/2011 10:15

"As the mother was busy, could you not have told the children to behave?"

Many women take great offence at anyone else telling their little darlings off..

BEAUTlFUL · 07/01/2011 10:17

I thought this was me! Shock

I think you are DNBU and good for you for saying something.

earwicga · 07/01/2011 10:20

Ah right, charliesmommy, so it is better to harrass the mother. Ok.

Ephiny · 07/01/2011 10:21

We have a similar thing in our local library - mothers apparently go out leaving their children locked out of the house, so they wander the neighbourhood and eventually turn up at the library, where they cause disruption and damage and bully other children. Sometimes the librarian has to lock the door to keep them out and gets up to let other people in. Unpleasant when you have to fight your way through kids banging on the doors and windows, and swearing and threatening people. It's their right to 'express themselves' though? Hmm

PrincessBoo · 07/01/2011 10:28

My husband works in a library. It's not so much screaming children that he objects to, but the rude teenagers who dominate the computer section, are constantly playing music on their phones and being rude to other library users. He isn't cut out for youth work and has a very low tolerance level.

I have a nearly 3 year old. I have been taking him to the library since he was a baby but becuase his Dad works there he acts like he owns the place. If anyone was to roll their eyes at me and say 'God almighty' about anything my child did then whether or not I agreed with them or not about my child's behaviour I'd tell them to where to get off.

She had 4 kids. Maybe she was having a bad day. Maybe on another day they would have been perfectly well behaved.

I'm sure your daughter has never misbehaved in public OP. Congratulations on your perfect parenting.

taintedsnow · 07/01/2011 10:29

I'm not keen on that level of noise either, so I'm in the YANBU camp on this.

That said, I think the actual point was raised way back, it was the lack of an attempt at controlling the children that is the issue here. If the mother or father had made even the slightest real effort, you wouldn't feel so inclined to say something.

I too am glad that libraries aren't the silent places of the past, but they are still supposed to be reasonably quiet places and from your description Peering, it seems fairly clear neither parent intended on doing a thing and the children's behaviour was definitely outside of the realm of acceptable.

taintedsnow · 07/01/2011 10:32

Princess, do you think it's okay for your DS to act like he owns the place then?

Mspontipine · 07/01/2011 10:38

Christ - Obviously us mere mortals shouldn't have our children when there's perfect parents like you around. Maybe you should have them all.

LittleMissHissyFit · 07/01/2011 10:41

All this bleating about the poor mother and having her first experience of the library ruined by OP's reaction to her frankly out of control children... and let's not forget there were 2 parents here, neither did anything to rein in the running, shrieking and squealing by the 3 independently mobile DC...

GREAT!

What about EVERYONE ELSES EXPERIENCE OF THE LIBRARY?

Just because 2 parents can't keep their 3 DC in check for 10 minutes, everyone ELSE has to suffer?

I would never dream of making MY DS behaviour the business of others, because I have always explained to him that certain places you need to be quiet, and calm.

Even when 2yo, when we lived in Egypt and were taking my mother round loads of sights, and museums, only one museum he found too much, so I took him outside to play in the gardens.

How ARE children supposed to know how to behave if we don't teach them? We have to teach them or we are failing to equip them with the tools they need for life.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 10:44

LittleMiss...one child is very different to 4

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 07/01/2011 10:45

or even 3

LittleMissHissyFit · 07/01/2011 10:51

Sure, but 2 parents surely can keep 3 DC in one place for 5m?

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 10:55

It's a wanky way to let your kids behave anywhere, nevermind a library. No-one expects kids not to misbehave when out in public, it very much depends on how the parent is dealing with it that clinches it for me. If they're in ignorant bliss whilst their wunderkind make everyone else miserable I am inclined to think they're a tosser. If it's obvious they are trying but failing to get a handle on their kids, I tend to be sympathetic and give them a "kids, what can you do?" kind of face.

OP did the kids have their ears pierced? Were any of them wearing a Le Coq Sportif shellsuit? We need to know.

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 10:58

"My mum works at the library here and they regularly get parents dropping young kids of (aged 4 or 5 is not unusual) while they go off shopping! The staff then have to deal with these kids screaming and shouting, or crying etc."

Shock Which library does your mum work in? Is it in the Bronx?

Lotster · 07/01/2011 10:59

YANBU

I know that children can often behave their worst at times when you really need them to behave, and sometimes the little feckers dahlings feed off your fear if you go over the top with telling them off and behave even worse... However for me I wouldn't begrudge giddy behaviour if I at least saw a serious attempt at disciplining them by the parent, which you didn't seem to.

If mine were doing this (but TBH I can't imagine them brawling in public TBH) I would have dealt with it more than say a few (ignored) shushes.

sieglinde · 07/01/2011 11:00

YANBU. Or if you are, I would be too.

I'm gobsmacked.

Not by the OP, but by the huge number of people who seem to think NOBODY can ever criticise or mind about any dc behaviour. Is there ANYTHING you all think inappropriate for a library?

Nefret · 07/01/2011 11:01

I would never let my children run round screaming and shouting in a library Shock

Unfortunately so many people just have no manners. I think in the children's library they can be more relaxed but in the main library parents should stop their children running riot, it is just polite to other people. Sometimes my girls try to run off in the main library but I just tell them they have to be quiet as people are trying to read and they calm down. Children obviously don't know that unless they are told so it is down to the parents, but also in our library the librarian will ask children to be quiet too.

Bogeyface · 07/01/2011 11:04

Bupcakes, nope a nice little town in the Midlands! And it happens regularly, atleast a couple of times a week if not more. She said it is often the more middle class families that tend to do it too. As if it doesnt count if they drop their kids off at the library because its educational!

I was really shocked, but she said that they have to put up with all sorts. They get verbally abused all the time and now have a security guard because of threats of physical assaults too. Again, these tend to be the more middle class types. I would never have thought it in a million years!

bupcakesandcunting · 07/01/2011 11:09

Ooh I am a midlander MNer. Giz us a clue! Wink I would be worried sick about leaving DS aged 3.7 unattended anywhere. He'd probably wander off to the nearest sweetshop to get his fix of illegal substances. Some people are mad...

I much preferred libraries when one was too afraid to make so much as a pipsqueak of a noise, lest one incurs the wrath of the authoritarian matron behind the desk. The good old days.

Bogeyface · 07/01/2011 11:10

Where the beer comes from!

BuzzLightBeer · 07/01/2011 11:19

Whats with all the "poor woman ahd 4 kids" AND A BLOODY HUSBAND! and its only 3 isn't it?

If 2 adults can control 3 children in a library they shouldn't be allowed in.

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