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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that children shouldn't be screaming and running around in a library?

378 replies

PeeringIntoAFestiveVoid · 06/01/2011 21:32

I have a feeling I'm going to get toasted to a perfect 'well done' shade of brown here.... Grin

I went to the library with DD today, and as we came in, there was a woman with a pushchair standing at the desk. As I was returning our books (not at the desk) and browsing, there were two children running around, screaming and shouting - the younger boy looked about three, the older boy five or so. They seemed to be with the mum at the desk, as she occasionally ssshhhed them (of which they took no notice at all). There was an older boy who looked to be six or seven, who joined in with the shouting and running from time to time, but wasn't causing the same chaos as the littler ones. The toddler had an utterly ear piercing shriek (I really can't stand shrill noises, so I realise I'm less tolerant of this kind of thing than many people), which he was letting rip frequently and very very loudly. There was a bloke there who I presumed to be their dad, as he sometimes spoke to them and called them over, but they didn't pay any attention at all, and he didn't push it or try to moderate their behaviour.

I joined DD in the children's section, and the two boys were running in and out of that area (then across the library to mum at the desk again). They were fighting, very vociferously, over a bottled drink, a fair bit of which got spilled on the floor. Several books were also knocked onto the floor. A couple of other children were sitting on the covered seats/cushions, and were intimidated by them rolling around, shouting and fighting. I was feeling very Hmm and wondered why the staff didn't point out to the mum that this wasn't ok behaviour.

As we checked our books out, the toddler screamed very loudly right behind me. I said "God almighty" and turned round, and the mum was walking past me with all four children. She said "What?? He's only two". I said "They've been running around screaming and fighting for the last twenty minutes. This is a library". She said "I don't care" to which I replied "Clearly; if you cared about other people, you wouldn't let your kids run around screaming and fighting". The woman walked off to the children's section.

I thought about what had happened, and thought maybe I'm completely out of sync with what's acceptable in libraries these days. As I was leaving I went to the desk and said "I know libraries aren't the solemn, silent places of the seventies, and I'm really glad about that, but is that now acceptable behaviour for children in a library? Am I way off the mark on what is ok?". The librarian said that the woman was joining the library, and that she had four children who'd never been in the library before (one was a babe in pushchair, obviously), so they didn't say anything to her. She looked quite Hmm at me.

I can see her point, and am wondering whether I was BU to say what I did. But to me, wherever I was I wouldn't let my children run around fighting and emitting ear-splitting shrieks, let alone in a library. I know it's not a sacred sanctum, but a library is supposed to be someone where you can go for peace and quiet to enjoy books.

So AIBU?

OP posts:
nappyaddict · 10/01/2011 14:38

sayjay You may wonder why I am asking you these things in so much detail. Recently in a restaurant I told some children to stop running and in a soft play area to not climb up the slides. Would you count these as instances of being in immediate danger? I did say it cos I was worried somebody would get hurt but it's not in the same league as for example about to run into the road or out of a shop door.

Ormirian · 10/01/2011 14:41

"children are not our possessions, and should be treated with respect."

What about the other people that the child is upsetting? Should they not be treated with respect?

CheerfulYank · 10/01/2011 16:02

Oh for cryin out loud! Of course children are not "posessions" and should be treated with respect, but your job as a parent is to protect your kids, mainly, and love them, but also to teach them respect for others! Why does this seem to be such an outlandish concept these days?

There's so much nonsense now about not making children feel bad, and of course you shouldn't go out of your way to do it, or ever hurt a child's feelings but sometimes they need to feel guilty, or remorseful, or like they've done something wrong, because they bloody have. How else do you develop a conscience? (Did I spell that right? I dunno. Working on pure caffeine here :o) All kids occasionally lose the plot, but you've got to at least try to rein them in. To quote the OP "GOD ALMIGHTY!"

Ok...end of rant. :)

JosieRosie · 10/01/2011 16:48

Cheerful Yank, that was a good rant. I agree with all of it Grin

TyraG · 10/01/2011 17:28

Right there with you CheerfulYank.

I can't stand the fact that parents these days make their kids responsible for nothing, especially their bad behaviour. Of course that comes from parents not wanting to take responsibility for teaching their children appropriate behaviours. But it doesn't stop there because then they have the nerve to get all butt-hurt when someone makes a comment about the bad behaviour, like its our fault for noticing it and if we had our heads up our butts as well, then we wouldn't notice it either and wouldn't be bothered by it.

BoffinMum · 10/01/2011 18:17

I go along with this. Parents have the opportunity to say to their kids, "Now pipe down, we're starting to get complaints so you must be bothering people" and be on side with the other grown ups, surely? Without being so over-sensitive?

PrincessBoo · 10/01/2011 18:22

In this case though, the parent had a go at the other parent. Not her kids. and as I have said about 5 million times on this thread WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AFTERWARDS.

PrincessBoo · 10/01/2011 18:25

Swanandduck just didn't want to hijack the thread and digress is all :)

so a library 'one of the few places of guaranteed sanctuary'. HA! Please, tell that to my husband biriyani and he will laugh you out of town. Libraries are havens for local nutters. Trufax :o

TyraG · 10/01/2011 18:33

Um actually PrincessBoo we do, the OP stated that they headed towards the children's section afterwards.

PrincessBoo · 10/01/2011 18:40

Yes, and out of range of the OP how do we know that when she wasn't being watched by all and sundry the woman didn't speak to her children about how to behave in a library. We don't.

didotwite · 10/01/2011 18:50

dont worry. the tories are about to close all the libraries down so it will no longer be an issue. Angry

JosieRosie · 10/01/2011 19:20

Oh honestly PrincessBoo! OF COURSE we don't know much about what happened after - just like we don't know what happened that morning, the night before, the weekend before or earlier that month. Is OP supposed to be a mind reader or some kind of Mystic Meg? Hmm She could only react to what she saw and heard in front of her eyes/ears and that's what she did - very reasonably IMHO.

HouseOfBamboo · 10/01/2011 19:29

It's also possible that because of OP's comments, the woman realised that her kids were causing a problem for others and was moved to explain to them that their behaviour was unacceptable.

You never know. Sometimes it does take someone to point things out before you realise what's happening. I certainly wander around in my own little bubble sometimes.

PrincessBoo · 10/01/2011 19:35

and it could also be possible that she would have done that regardless of OP's comments Houseofbamboo

And yes 'oh honestly' ( Hmm ) JosieRosie that is my point exactly - we don't know anything about this woman on whom the OP made a judgement regarding her parenting skills based on 20 minutes or so in a library.

bupcakesandcunting · 10/01/2011 19:43

The kids were unruly little tykes, the mum was a slob and OP is ace. Fact. Kids probs had ear piercings and trendy Mohawks.

The end.

JosieRosie · 10/01/2011 20:56

Congratulations PrincessBoo on being the least judgmental person on Mumsnet Biscuit

I think OP is ace too. By the way OP, are you Grin or Blush or Confused that your innocent post has generarated such hot debate????

PrincessBoo · 10/01/2011 21:13

Post is in AIBU, therefore is intended to create debate.

PeeringIntoTheWintryVoid · 10/01/2011 21:36
Liv77 · 10/01/2011 21:47

I'm glad that your thread has encouraged some people to start going to their libraries again Peering, hopefully my job will be safe for a while longer yet. Grin

CheerfulYank · 10/01/2011 22:20

Yay for libraries! I go all the time...but I'm American so that doesn't help you lot out. Sorry :(

anonMum2 · 10/01/2011 23:16

I've only got one kid.. but struggle to control him in public every now and again as he has abundant life and energy (though it seldom happens as I'm very strict with him so he's generally well-behaved).

If I'm busy doing something, hot and bothered, or feeling unwell and DS is going nuts... and THEN someone tells me off when I'm struggling like that, even though all I want to do is give my son a great big smack, I would probably bite the strangers head off even though I know he/she is right in telling me off. Oh yes, my DH would also be the one who would just walk off/ignore and not help me out, which just makes me even more Angry (with DH and the whole situation) making me more likely to bite the strangers head off for telling me off rather than helping me out. OP, pray you don't meet me when I'm in that sort of situation. Grin

DeeCeeDee · 11/01/2011 03:52

No they shouldnt be running around screaming in a library - why cant the parents keep them quiet, let them know library is a quiet space and if they cant keep quiet - take them outside to run around a park? Its easy enough to do. Too many mothers either afraid or too careless to instill manners and basic discipline in their children now, this is just ridiculous. What happened to knowing whats appropriate, and what isnt? shouldnt the parent be sitting down enjoying reading a book with their child anyway? If they cant do that then they should take themself and their unruly child somewhere else.

melikalikimaka · 11/01/2011 08:40

Yes, DeeCeeDee, I agree, maybe a trip to the local playground before the the visit to the library may sort them out.

Spacehoppa · 11/01/2011 12:00

I take my little one (3.5) to the library for story time each week. Its usually in a room upstairs which is great as it lets the little one be a bit boisterous. I don't think we have managed silence around the library yet...

evolucy7 · 11/01/2011 12:27

Very well done to all you parents of perfect children. Hmm The lady in question was busy at the desk, she had 4 children, and she was witnessed on 1 day for a short period of time when her children were running wild. While I completely agree that children need to be taught how to behave appropriately given the situation that they are in, if we are honest we all know that that is not always realistic.
I am now unfortunately a single mother to 2 girls, who are 3 and 4, and I consider myself educated and a good parent, yet there are times when my children misbehave. I am told by the school that they are delightful well behaved polite children, and yet I have at times been embarrassed in public when it all goes a bit pearshaped!
Now this lady's children may always behave like that or they may not, we don't know. Of course they should not behave like that in a library but suggestions of her going outside to calm them down, or taking them to the park instead might not have been practical. She had gone to join the library, she probably did not have time to delay it, she probably needed to just get on with it, and continue with the rest of what must be a very busy day for her.