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young, close relative has become an "escort" WWYD?

882 replies

notreallymehere · 06/01/2011 16:22

20 something low closeish relative has become an escort. She has been thinking about it for a while, tried it in London, stopped but now has gone back to it in her home town. She is with what appears to be reputable agency and seems to be making quite a lot of money. Lots of reviews now appearing on her webpage etc. She appears fully happy with her choice - she had a job before (working in a coffee bar) but says that the money is better with this (she has previously worked as a lap dancer). My question is what do I tell my friends/acquaintances if they ask about her. I've discussed this with some people when she first started in London and the reaction was very aggressive "well you should have stopped her" etc etc. (hence name change) Fact is that she is an adult and this is her choice and I cannot see how I can stop her - she is making a far bit of money at this and is very financially motivated. However she is part of the family and it is difficult to avoid the questions but many people are very judgemental (of me for somehow "allowing" this to happen).

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 14/01/2011 11:54

Cote - you might be interested in pages 24 - 29 of the Scottish report. They look at what would deter men from using prostitutes (and give a punter's perspective).

www.prostitutionresearch.com/ChallengingDemandScotland.pdf

"Those advocating legalisation ? like many of the punters interviewed for this research ? assumed that men were not capable of attaining sexual continence. They therefore sought contexts (prostitution) in which men could buy sex ? assuming incorrectly that legal prostitution is disease-free prostitution and that legal prostitution would preserve men?s sexual health..."

Sexual continence is my new favourite expression I think WRT prostitution.

"At the time of this writing (March 2008) there have been calls for both the Scottish and the UK governments to adopt the Swedish model to prevent and combat prostitution and trafficking. Acknowledging the enormous social injustice and harms intrinsic to prostitution, the Swedish legislation criminalises punters, pimps and traffickers. Those who are bought for prostitution
are understood by the Swedish Parliament to be victims regardless of whether or not they were overtly physically coerced or whether they were emotionally coerced by prior sexual assault, abandonment, brainwashing by pimps or whether they were coerced by a sexist or racist lack of job alternatives, or coerced into prostitution by poverty.

While those buying and selling sex are
arrested, women in prostitution are not criminalised in Sweden. Instead, they are offered social services similar to those offered by the Routes Out Project in Glasgow (Bindel, 2004).
Swedish police statistics indicate that there has been a dramatic decline in prostitution since the law went into effect. ?We have significantly less prostitution than our neighboring countries,? a Stockholm police officer stated. (Anwar, 2007) Two years after the Swedish law?s passage, a government taskforce reported that there was a 50% decrease in the number of women prostituting and a 75% decrease in the number men who bought sex. According to the Swedish National Rapporteur on Trafficking the law that prohibits the purchase of sexual services has ?a direct and positive effect in limiting the trafficking in human beings for sexual purposes to
Sweden? (Ekberg, 2004).
Laws affect cultural practices. The Swedish law has a social impact on the way prostitution is viewed by its citizens. The 1999 Swedish law ? is a concrete and tangible expression of the belief that in Sweden women and children are not for sale. It effectively dispels men?s self assumed right to buy women and children for prostitution.? (Ekberg, 2004).
In addition to imposing serious legal consequences on men?s purchase of sex, we at the same time need to increase the public?s understanding of why prostitution is harmful in and of itself, and to ensure that prostitution is regarded as predatory and sexually exploitative behaviour rather than sexual behaviour. Ultimately, the effectiveness of any criminal justice program
depends on the community?s understanding of the issues and its commitment to justice for prostituted women and children. Its success also depends on the willingness of police
departments to enforce laws that have been passed (Moe, 2007).
Additional research on men who buy sex is needed. Because of their need to minimise the
harms of prostitution and thereby justify its existence, and because of the punters? desire for social invisibility, we are confident that the statistics in this Report are conservative and are likely underestimates of, for example, the men?s frequency of using prostitutes, their violence, and their misogyny.
Using this report, and additional information from this research database, prostitution prevention programmes, including some aimed specifically at young men in schools and colleges, can be initiated. We remain cautiously optimistic regarding men?s capacity for change."

That sounds to me like "where there is a will, there is a way".

vesuvia · 14/01/2011 12:11

Beachcomber, thanks for your posts. They are crystal clear to me.

AnyFucker · 14/01/2011 12:39

BC, you have managed to articulate perfectly what I feel but appear to be unable to get down in writing.

It must have taken an awful long time to gather those thoughts (in your "essay" post) and those links.

I wish I had the clearsightedness (and the time) to do what you did instead of doing my usual knee-jerk, visceral reactions to certain posts.

Thank you

dittany · 14/01/2011 12:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 14/01/2011 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sakura · 14/01/2011 12:52

Yes, thanks Beachcomber

sakura · 14/01/2011 13:00

HaHAHAHAHA, you HAVE to watch that clip of the woman interviewing Craig of Craigslist (something similar to punternet from what I can tell). Oh, she is my new favourite person.

sakura · 14/01/2011 13:01

sorry Scroll down here

Andre1960 · 14/01/2011 13:03

Beachcomber:

Re. "Andre your phrase about "a caricature of bogey-men and helpless victims" is really offensive.", etc.

You greatly misrepresent me. I think if you read some of the postings in this thread you will recognise that I am justified in my characterisation. I am neither crass nor ignorant because I see some things differently to you, nor because I see things that you do not. Perhaps you should look again or look harder.

Also, please do not accuse me of wanting to silence anybody. If you read what I write you will see that I am saying very precisely and entirely the opposite. Why then do you claim I am trying to silence anybody? I was specifically affirming the dreadful experience that some women suffer. You can speak out for such women. So can I. I can speak of other things too. So can you. This is the opposite of an attempt to deny someone the right to speak.

The fact you label yourself a feminist is not a sufficient warrant for me of your insight and compassion and it should not be sufficient for you either. By all means affirm your feminism, but don't waive it about as if it provides some assurance about you or grants you some special entitlements and exemptions. Read your own essay (which I agree with)!

In answer to your question, "who will speak out for them?", I would say "anybody who will".

I think you are more involved in an attempt to silence that I am.

Thank you for the links and the warning about the need for a strong stomach. The truth very often requires a strong stomach. But we must have one because we owe the truth that.

sakura · 14/01/2011 13:08

I agree, Beachcomber, Andre is trying to silence feminists because he doesn't like the fact that they oppose the sex industry. He probably has some sort of stake in the sex industry.
Hell, he could be Craig from Craigslist who was- humiliated bigtime on that clip-- for all we know

vesuvia · 14/01/2011 13:11

CoteDAzur wrote - "I would sell sex if DC were hungry"

Not much of a free choice, is it?

I agree with Beachcomber, that a woman doing this would be sacrificing herself, not empowering herself.

I think there will be many women in third world countries who do this because they have no other choice and it is their last resort.

Does it happen in countries with a welfare state?

Has it got anything to do with "free-choice" prostitutes in the UK?

Beachcomber · 14/01/2011 13:43

Cheers sisters!

AnyFucker are you trying to tell me that I should stop pontificating on MN and get some work done? Grin

Andre - sorry but your posting style kinda drags me down so I can't seem to muster much energy to reply. This isn't about you or I. I'm just trying to do a bit of feminist analysis to a gendered human rights issue - there are facts and figures and reports and testimonials at our fingertips which help us to do this. It is not about anybody's credentials or labels. I took issue with your hyperbole and found it crass - I prefer a more 'call a spade a spade' attitude when it comes to discussing the documented harms of male sexual predation.

Andre1960 · 14/01/2011 13:47

Dittany:

This is a very long thread! I looked for the links in the posts but didn't see any. If they are there then that is my oversight. Thank you for doing the work for me and reposting them.

"What caricature? The only caricature is the one you've made there. None of us have said anything like that."

I don't know who you are speaking for when you speak of 'us'. I don't know if the posts I am speaking of are by 'us'? You should not so incautious as to defend what 'us' says - you should defend what you say, and specific posts that you are speaking about. I don't have the time at the moment but maybe I will try to do the work for you and point out to you what I'm speaking about. It would be a lot of work. I think it would be better if you did this work.

"Women in prostitution are incredibly vulnerable to extreme male violence. Male violence against women is also incredibly common."

I know this. If I say something you don't like, you do not need to claim that it tells you more than it does about what I do or do not know. To make such a claim with no evidence other that your speculative ideas about me is deeply dishonest. It is also very disrespectful. Nor are you entitled to be "sure" about what I find helpful and what I do not without very good reason for being sure. To claim such certainty when it is not justified is dishonest and disrespectful.

sakura · 14/01/2011 13:50

"This isn't about you "

Don't be so mean, BC. Andre is perfectly within his rights to behave as though feminists who condemn the sex trade are just out to get men like him...

...which gets me wondering as to why he identifies so much with the scum punters we are describing.

dittany · 14/01/2011 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Andre1960 · 14/01/2011 14:01

I wonder if 'us' would agree with me that there is a great deal of personal abuse dished out on this board. I think this behaviour is indicative of intolerance and the wish to silence people. However, I'm not sure whether 'us' can see it. I hope they can.

sakura · 14/01/2011 14:07

Yes, feminists are silenced at every turn in the media and society at large. NOw, that we can agree on.
SOmetimes, on a bad day, some people even try to silence them on their own miniscule internet space!!

Andre1960 · 14/01/2011 14:08

Dittany: I don't think I'm throwing my weight around. I am asking you to account for what you say. I do not go beyond this and also ask you to account for what you do not say. If you value truth you should face it in yourself. Do not ask others to do what you will not.

Got to go!

dittany · 14/01/2011 14:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sakura · 14/01/2011 14:17

I think the misunderstanding is that Andre is a male, and we disagree with his worldview, and this makes him feel "disrespected" ?

Just having a stab, just trying to see all this disrespect he's talking about.

AnyFucker · 14/01/2011 15:12

is andre a male ?

Andre1960 · 14/01/2011 17:24

Back from shopping but got to shoot off again 'cos kids are home shortly.

dittany: All I'm demanding of you is that you do as you would be done by.

TTFN

CoteDAzur · 14/01/2011 20:08

dittany - Do you really need "evidence" that outlawed goods and services go underground?

If you have never heard of the American experiment of outlawing alcohol, Google "Prohibition". Alcohol was outlawed and its underground market sprang up. And led to the creation of powerful mafias.

Same with drugs. When LSD was outlawed, its underground market was immediately created and still exists. When Ecstasy was outlawed, its black maret was instantly created.

I cannot think of a single good or service whose use completely disappeared when a state made a moral decision that it should not be traded legally.

Maybe you would like to tell us about one.

Beachcomber · 14/01/2011 20:13

I can - slave labour in the US.

CoteDAzur · 14/01/2011 20:28

It seems to be an open secret that Sweden's sex trade has gone underground.