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AIBU?

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young, close relative has become an "escort" WWYD?

882 replies

notreallymehere · 06/01/2011 16:22

20 something low closeish relative has become an escort. She has been thinking about it for a while, tried it in London, stopped but now has gone back to it in her home town. She is with what appears to be reputable agency and seems to be making quite a lot of money. Lots of reviews now appearing on her webpage etc. She appears fully happy with her choice - she had a job before (working in a coffee bar) but says that the money is better with this (she has previously worked as a lap dancer). My question is what do I tell my friends/acquaintances if they ask about her. I've discussed this with some people when she first started in London and the reaction was very aggressive "well you should have stopped her" etc etc. (hence name change) Fact is that she is an adult and this is her choice and I cannot see how I can stop her - she is making a far bit of money at this and is very financially motivated. However she is part of the family and it is difficult to avoid the questions but many people are very judgemental (of me for somehow "allowing" this to happen).

OP posts:
MrsCrafty · 09/01/2011 19:46

One of the things that amazes me on this whole subject is talk of morals.

Surely, morals are originally from the bible, you know that book that told us all how to live or not.

So technically if you dont believe in God and the Bible, why is anyone bothering now with morals? When you denounce God or Moses for those rules, they don't apply to you anymore anyway. Just a thought.

dittany · 09/01/2011 19:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JessinAvalon · 09/01/2011 19:56

Er... yes, OKaren, there's a big difference. Do you really need to ask that question?

LookToWindward · 09/01/2011 20:22

As a question, why would criminalising the act of prostitution (i.e. the exchange of funds for sexual intercourse with the offence being committed by the john in this example) eliminate or even reduce it?

JessinAvalon · 09/01/2011 20:33

More information on the Swedish model of prostitution:

www.justicewomen.com/cj_sweden.html

blueshoes · 09/01/2011 20:36

Jess: "As Kittenshaped said much earlier on in the thread, the rest of the female population have to live with the consequences of the sense of entitlement that being able to buy a woman gives them. And it doesn't benefit the many women who are forced into the industry."

I don't buy this argument.

Let compare with abortion. A lot of women think abortion is not for them, immoral even, but that does not mean that the fact it is legal before 24 weeks results in these same women thinking they want to have early abortions. The vast majority of women who would not undergo early abortions themselves would still want it to be legal to protect the health and safety of women who do want it.

AlienZombieMum · 09/01/2011 20:42

"Let compare with abortion. A lot of women think abortion is not for them, immoral even, but that does not mean that the fact it is legal before 24 weeks results in these same women thinking they want to have early abortions. The vast majority of women who would not undergo early abortions themselves would still want it to be legal to protect the health and safety of women who do want it"

I agree with this. I have often thought of the legalities of prostitution as similar to the legalities of abortion. Both opposed by religion and incite moral arguments, both potentially harmful to women, both concerning a woman's choice for her body. Not totally the same OBVIOUSLY but there are striking similarities.

neverknowinglyunderdressed · 09/01/2011 20:43

What about the spiritual side of the sex act? What I mean is that is what makes sex for money rather different from other types of work for pay. I would argue that it is damaging in that way as well as possibly physically and emotionally.

JessinAvalon · 09/01/2011 20:54

Have any of you had to sit in work whilst your male work colleagues sit and chat about the pussies of the girls they saw strip at the weekend or comparing the prostitutes that they slept with on the last stag weekend they were on?

And then they're supposed to turn to you and treat you with respect?

It's my experience that men separate women in two groups - women they can respect and women they don't have to do. But being able to use and abuse the latter group does affect the way that they see all women. We keep hearing about how unsafe it is for women in their own homes. Easy access to prostitutes and strip clubs does nothing at all to reduce the male sense of entitlement that persists and affects all women.

JessinAvalon · 09/01/2011 20:55

Abortion is something that women choose to have done to themselves! I don't equate abortion with prostitution at all. Not one little bit.

JessinAvalon · 09/01/2011 20:56

Giving up on this thread now.

I look forward to the day when we become more enlightened and follow Sweden with their prostitution laws.

AlienZombieMum · 09/01/2011 21:01

Abortion is something that women choose to have done to themselves

So is prostitution for the majority of women in it. You don't have to believe it if it offends your morals but it is the truth.

I look forward to the day when we become more enlightened and follow Sweden with their prostitution laws

I look forward to the day when prostitutes who do not want to be working are helped and prostitutes who do are spared un-neccessary laws which force them underground and make their job more unsafe.

AnyFucker · 09/01/2011 21:03

jess, just before you go

I appreciate your posts and your stance, on this thread

they haven't been in vain, I promise you

also dittany, but that has already been stated, many times before

Andre1960 · 09/01/2011 21:11

SNB: I absolutely respect your position. If you tell me that you speak the truth about yourself I cannot gainsay that. You are very lucid person and you are certainly very good at advocating for yourself and that is great because I think you need that in order to preserve yourself in the situation you have placed yourself in. If you can do so then that is a remarkable feat of personal strength. I hope that you can maintain the strength that you currently possess but I suggest you watch it very carefully because you have chosen a difficult path for yourself. I think that you may come to value money differently and what you give for it differently and conclude that no amount of the former will pay for the latter. I believe you when you say that that is not your current reality, but the reality I speak of is an alternative reality that is equally viable and it may become yours. I hope you can maintain your strength sufficiently to recognise if that change in your reality occurs and have the strength to leap into into that new reality. I hope, also, that the new reality will be able to be reconciled with the old one, because that will also be necessary. You need to consider whether the reality you choose for yourself now gives you all these freedoms. If it does not you need to be very careful.

My daughter is twelve years old and is a very beautiful and interesting person and I want her to be strong and perfectly and entirely herself because I think that she is wonderful. The reality you choose for yourself is a reality I would not have her choose for herself because I think it will be difficult for her to also preserve those things in her which make her wonderful. I do not say this out of disrespect for you, but out of love and concern for her. I think it is better for her to be a different sort of woman. To that extent, I am going to say you are wrong in the choice you make for yourself. I will tell her it is an option, but a bad option. I think from what you say about only speaking for yourself that you will not have a problem with me saying this to her. If she choses the same option as you I hope, as I do for you, that she will eventually find a better reality for herself. When we talk about better and worse we know we are talking about judgement-calls. You do not make any greater claim for yourself than that you are making a judgement-call about yourself and I think you deserve a great deal of credit for that. However, I still think that you are wrong. I respect you, but as long as you choose the reality for yourself that you do, I will tell you that I believe there is a better reality for you.

thecaptaincrocfamily · 09/01/2011 21:29

Its the oldest profession in the world and there is undeniably a market for it. She is an adult and at least she is paying her own way in society. Her choice, her life, her body. You can point out the risks and be there for her if anything goes wrong but remind her of the risks Sad
It is not your responsibility to police or allow or disallow any decision in her life, she has her own will.

reratio · 09/01/2011 22:12

I think Jess is right with the way that women are split into seperate groups of those that are respected and those that aren't. My brother was going to go to a strip club the other week and was quite boastful about it until I asked him what he would feel if he saw me dancing on the stage. His reply was that he'd be horrified and he would drag me off it presumabley because to him I am in the class to be respected by him. Every lapdancer/stripper/prostitute is someones daughter/sister etc and yet they are treated as a sort of underclass.

JessinAvalon · 09/01/2011 22:30

Thanks AF - appreciate that.

And Reratio - I had exactly the same conversation with my brother. Did yours go in the end? Mine did but seemed pretty ashamed about it afterwards.

thecaptaincrocfamily · 09/01/2011 22:30

They are treated absolutely fine in most strip clubs who often have no touching rules which are enforced and blokes get slung out for it.
On the womens lib debate I do have to say that for women who choose to become sex workers as opposed to those who are forced/coerced I would say that they have more power and self respect than someone who sits at home, does not work and lives off everyone elses earnings on benefits. They are contributing to society and paying tax. They also have the capacity to provide effectively for their families.

thecaptaincrocfamily · 09/01/2011 22:34

I also think sex workers at least don't give it away to anyone on a weekend, they at least charge for the privilage! For a fairly good price.
What is the difference to being a model in a magazine and having guys letching over or jacking off over the pic?? Still being exploited for a wage and usually seen by many more people!

blueshoes · 09/01/2011 22:36

captaincroc: "On the womens lib debate I do have to say that for women who choose to become sex workers as opposed to those who are forced/coerced I would say that they have more power and self respect than someone who sits at home, does not work and lives off everyone elses earnings on benefits. They are contributing to society and paying tax. They also have the capacity to provide effectively for their families."

I had to smile when I read this. The thought did occur to me ...

reratio · 09/01/2011 22:43

Jess- No he didn't go, when I said that to him it did strike a chord in his mind. So we went out to the cinema and for a meal afterwards instead.

AnyFucker · 09/01/2011 22:50

reraio, well done you

and him

AnyFucker · 09/01/2011 22:50

reratio

Andre1960 · 09/01/2011 23:23

dittany Sun 09-Jan-11 19:50:58 wrote:

"Morality means the right way of acting with regards to the world around you, including people.

The most basic morality is do as you would be done by, or don't do unto others what you wouldn't have done to you. It's called the Golden Rule.

That's why men who would never dream of selling their arses for money or seeing their daughters or mothers or wives in prostitution should not use prostituted women."

You are absolutely right! And women who do not want themselves or their sisters, mothers and daughters to be regarded as sexual commodities should not dream of selling themselves to men for money - but I think you have said this also, and congratulate you for doing so.

I have a similar message for those women who have complained here about being denigrated by men. I would ask them to try to speak about men without also denigrating them. It seems to me that it must be very difficult for most women to do this because I rarely hear them speak of men without making deeply insulting claims about them. There is a particular and almost universal tendency among women to generalise criticism of some men to all men. There is also a widespread tendency for women to excuse themselves every failure and to consider every vice they have a virtue but do the reverse when speaking about men. This is often done implicitly and, I'm sure, mostly unconciously. If women think this is what men do, I agree they sometimes do, but you should listen to yourselves more carefully because very many women do the same. In fact, in my experience of listening to men speak of women, they denigrate them a great deal less than women do when they speak of men. Furthermore, they are generally more aware that they are doing it and are more likely to be challenged by other men than women are aware and likely to be challenged by each other. As the feminists of old used to say, you need to liberate your language! In the meantime I will continue to challenge men who imply that all women are whores at heart because some women sell their bodies. I will also challenge those who talk about the pussy they saw at the strip club last night. However, I very rarely have to do this because men do not generally speak about women in this way (at least the ones I know!) I will continue to challenge men while I listen to supposedly enlightened women make remarks about punters and penises and engage in a discourse that equates men with their sexual organs and lecture me about my own sexuality without having the wit to even realise that they are doing it and, presumably, the good manners to care!

sakura · 10/01/2011 09:29

Wotteva Trevor