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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that some smokers are selfish f****?

380 replies

glitzalicious · 03/01/2011 21:23

so DH and I took my mum (who we rarely see for geographical reasons) and 9-month-old DS for lunch at a pricey restaurant in London today. It was freezing but there were no seats available inside, so at the suggestion of the waitress we sat at a table outside, near a patio heater, and ordered what looked set to be a very nice lunch.
A few minutes after we sat down, a woman in her 50s and her younger male companion came and sat on the table next to us, and both proceeded to light up cigarettes, inches from DS's face (the tables were extremely close together, and he was sitting on my mum's lap, happily eating his lunch). DH very politely asked the man if they would mind not smoking so close to the baby, to which he replied: "It's a free country". His leather-faced companion then gestured to a table at the other end of the al fresco area, with no heater anywhere near, and said: "Nobody's stopping you from moving". DH was quite stunned, and said: 'I think that's quite inconsiderate; it's really bad for the baby", and the bloke said: "I know", before shrugging his shoulders and turning back to his haggard old witch of a friend. I couldn't believe that people could be so selfish; to expect my DS (who had been sitting there before them) to either inhale all of their carcinogens (the fact the guy acknowledged that his habit was harmful to DC was quite shocking) or freeze, just so they could get their nicotine fix. Why the f* did they not move? We did get up and try to cancel our order; it was too late so we had to sit, completely freezing, in the heater-free zone. I have no axe to grind with smokers; if someone chooses to poison their own body it's no one's business but their own. But I would never think that others should suffer just so I could indulge a habit, and if someone were to ask me to stop doing something (talking too loudly in a restaurant etc) I would be so mortified at the prospect of impacting someone's enjoyment of their meal I would stop immediately, as they have just as much right to a nice lunch/dinner out as I do.
People always go on about a 'right to smoke': AIBU to think that right extends only to a smoker's home, or a child-free area? My blood is still boiling over those bastards!

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 04/01/2011 11:03

Goldenbear, sorry to have to tell you but in my line of work (until recently) I learned that there are hell of alot of parents who do believe that not only does their world revolve around their precious offspring, but that everyone elses should too.

It was a bloody nightmare trying to keep guests happy in a predominantly adult area that some parents insisted on bringing young children into. Not allowing a baby to change your social life is fine, aslong as it doesnt change everyone elses for the worst! And whilst most people will happily make allowances for families, there are limits.

If the OP wanted to sit in a smoke free enviroment that was suitable for a young family then she should have gone to a restaurant that seated them indoors in a place that didnt mean their buggy and palaver was in anyone elses way. Sounds to me like they wanted to go to a favourite pre-child haunt that simply wasnt appropriate.

cumfy · 04/01/2011 11:06

Your dining neighbours don't seem like decent humans.

Did you swap seats so that the baby was one seat away, rather than immediately adjacent ?

mayorquimby · 04/01/2011 11:09

Charlier Booker has, as always, put it better than I ever could

I hate kids. Hate them all without exception. Even yours. Especially yours. Especially if it's a boy and you named it Jake. And if you've ever written a chummy diary article about Jake for a Sunday supplement, I wish nothing short of death upon you. Death by wasps and bombs and razorwire. In a thunderstorm. While Jake looks on in horror. Because I hate parents too.

As luck wouldn't have it, I live slap-bang in the centre of Nappy Valley, a wedge of south London with one of the heaviest kiddywink-and-parent populations in the universe. It's a sickeningly self-satisfied place where the high street heaves with aromatherapy centres, organic-honey shops and cosy little cafes with cutesy lower-case names like "munch", "toast", "smug", "twee" and "bum". And the pavement heaves with buggy prams.

Naturally, I'm so riven with confused rage, I don't really belong in Pretty Pretty Niceland - but oh, how I'd love to. I dream of being able to relax awhile in the cafe; to ruffle my Berliner, sup a tea, chew a wholewheat tofu crumpet or whatever. I wish I could do that.

But I can't. Because wherever I go, there's a repugnant Jake nearby; shrieking, kicking the table, bellowing its hot little face off. And sitting beside Jake is Jake's moron parent, doting on his every noise, dribble and splurt, as though he's somehow special or charming.

Well, he isn't. Jake is a selfish, dot-eyed shouting machine hell bent on sabotaging whatever scraps of tranquillity remain in this pitiful world, and every right-thinking person within earshot despises him with a coal-black intensity that would make your head spin like a centrifuge if you ever got wind of it.

But as a horrified onlooker - one who genuinely believes children should be seen and not heard, and preferably neither - what can you do? I've tried glaring at the parents, but their minds are so hopelessly warped by 24-hour brood-worship, they mistake my consternation for admiration. I've tried glaring at Jake, which isn't entirely bad, since it usually causes him to shut up and start gazing back with a sort of affronted blankness for a few moments, but also makes the waitresses regard me with open suspicion.

I've contemplated having an "I HATE CHILDREN" T-shirt made up, in the hope that it might shock attendant parents into scurrying away with Jake in tow, but in today's kiddie-reverent times, I'd be sectioned in minutes. As for the most obvious solution - leaning forward and politely asking the parent to curb Jake's noisier excesses - that'd end in a fistfight.

I've come to realise that what's required is a distress flare - a smaller, indoor version of a trawlerman's distress flare; one you can fire over your head at the point when Jake's incessant babbling is starting to turn you homicidal.

A distress flare solves two problems at once: it warns Jake's parents you're about to lob a plate at his head, while simultaneously rendering Jake himself dumb, as he stares at the glittering firework like a particularly stupid jackdaw with half-eaten beans round its gob. Oh, and if it sets the cafe roof on fire, that's another bonus.

Hey, don't blame me. Blame Jake and his mummy.

Ephiny · 04/01/2011 11:10

I think you're being a bit unreasonable - and I'm not a smoker, never have been, and in fact really dislike the smell of smoke. So I wouldn't have been happy about someone coming and lighting up next to me - in fact I'd probably have moved to one of the 'cold' tables - but wouldn't have said anything to them. Because it's not my business what other adults do, or my place to tell them how to behave. There are all kinds of ways people behave in public that annoy me, but I don't go around telling them off!

And I don't think having a baby gives you the right to expect everyone else to modify their behaviour for your convenience.

JanetPlanet · 04/01/2011 11:16

MumGoneCrazy, do you really think Op is out of order for wanting the right to not have to breath harmful fumes? There needs to be an attitude shift in how acceptable people think this is, why should people tolerate it? It causes cancer and asthma ffs! Maybe if people saw it as unacceptable we wouldn't see so many parents smoking with their kids in the back of the car or pregnant smokers standing outside maternity units where there are 'no smoking' signs everywhere. Children and adults should not have to breath smoke fumes. Smokers have not got the
Monopoly on 'outside'. I smoke. My choice. I don't want to cause harm to others, don't expect them to tolerate me and don't have a 'fuck you' attitude just because
I'm outside.

RudeEnglishLady · 04/01/2011 11:16

Those people sound a bit inconsiderate, however they were outside.

Its a bit mean to keep going on about the lady's bad skin. I get that you are implying she had a 'smokers face' but I smoked for years and have great skin - its genetics. Maybe they were a mother and son who hadn't seen each other for months also! Maybe they'd been at work all morning and were desperate for a gasp. I would never take a little one for lunch in the financial districts in London purely from experience that these restaurants are packed with swearing, drinking men at lunchtimes. Its their right to act like that and I can accept it or keep away from it.

So yeah, they were a bit mean but for goodness sake what were you doing making an old lady and a baby eat lunch outdoors in winter? London has quite a lot of nice restaurants from what I remember. YANBU Chalk it up to experience :)

RudeEnglishLady · 04/01/2011 11:16

er I mean YABU! Sorry!

MumGoneCrazy · 04/01/2011 11:18

I agree that the couple were selfish to have not thought of the children around but they probably didn't have children themselves and see other peoples children as the parents problem not theirs, as a smoker and a parent, no I wouldn't have sat between two families and sparked up.

Some smokers do feel put out that they have been pushed outside so SOME NOT ALL feel that they have the right to outside seats, but it was the OP's "AIBU to think that right extends only to a smoker's home, or a child-free area?" that has annoyed most people, no has disagreed that it's wrong to smoke near a baby.

Goldenbear · 04/01/2011 11:19

Didn't she think she had more right to stay as she was seated FIRST.
No I would hope no one would have the audacity to ask you to remove a child, they are after all a fellow human being with the same rights as anybody else in this country, a cigarette doesn't have those rights.

MorticiaAddams · 04/01/2011 11:25

Goldenbear I had to laugh at your post.

It doesn't matter who was seated first. Being there first doesn't give them a right to dictate what everyone who comes after them can do in a public place.

Nobody is arguing that the cigarette has any rights but the people smoking it do. They had the right to sit where they did and smoke and they also had the right not to move.

MumGoneCrazy · 04/01/2011 11:26

I have to go, I have a 15month old who has decided to have a screaming fit, and I wouldn't want our neighbours to get annoyed and ask us to move house Grin

Bogeyface · 04/01/2011 11:27

In theory yes, if you are there first then those who arrive later should work around you.

*However, I and a fair few others are questioning whether they should have been there in the first place. THere are alot of bloody good reasonably priced restaurants in London that would have been far more appropriate for a family meal with a baby. This place sounds more suited to a couple or an adults only group.

Perhaps the OP is so defensive because she has realised that you cant just go anywhere with Junior in tow and that she made a mistake in her choice of dining?

Goldenbear · 04/01/2011 11:28

RudeEnglishlady it was a bank holiday yesterday so I think your mass sterotyping of 'City workers' flocking to these venues to light up was probably not applicable.

mazzystartled · 04/01/2011 11:28

Some smokers are selfish
So are some parents
Whilst I would infinitely prefer not to smell other people's rancid cigarettes whilst eating, I don't suppose the bloke was going to chainsmoke throughout his meal. You overreacted. YABU

TandB · 04/01/2011 11:28

Ah. The old "But I was there fiiiiirst" argument. Heard in playgrounds across the world...

TandB · 04/01/2011 11:30

Mumgonecrazy - I can't hear your child's screaming fit but I am now, thanks to your selfish decision to post about it, aware that somewhere out there a child is being noisy.

This offends me. Please do something about it immediately.

altinkum · 04/01/2011 11:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RudeEnglishLady · 04/01/2011 11:41

Ok Goldenbear - don't live in England, I stand corrected. Its been a few years since I worked in London - nice to hear everyones given up lunchtime revelry and its now just a stereotype Wink

Obvhadtochange · 04/01/2011 11:49

see the thing is pre DC i wouldn't have noticed if there was a baby or child in the vicinity, they just weren't something on my radar. a hot man, or a woman with a lovely handbag or shoes, yes, a baby, no.

and as this woman was a leather faced hag, it's quite likely she was both barren and bitter also Hmm and God knows most men wouldn't notice a baby if it were balanced on your head while you did the lambada unless you had a short skirt on.

they probably just didn't notice you had a kid there, especially as it was outside and winter

ccpccp · 04/01/2011 11:54

The 'I was here first' mentality is fine if other posters are saying the family should have moved. No - the smokers, who arrived last, should have read the situation and sat elsewhere.

They didnt do this because their comfort in front of the heater was more important to them than the health and comfort of two families already eating.

As I said - selfish cnuts.

MorticiaAddams · 04/01/2011 12:00

The 'I was here first' mentality is not fine at all.

If you sit in a place where certain people are allowed and certain activities can take place then you should anticipate that this could happen at any time during your visit.

TandB · 04/01/2011 12:02

I don't think anyone is saying the OP should have moved. It was her choice to move, just as it was her choice to eat at what sounds like a completely daft choice of restaurant.

Jux · 04/01/2011 12:03

You can't hoard the heater even if you were there first, unless you're German and using a beach towel.

Take your baby and yourselves to a restaurant which can feed you inside. You won't be bothered by smoke.

altinkum · 04/01/2011 12:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pootles2010 · 04/01/2011 12:09

Not read whole thread (i know, i know) but seems a bit ironic to me - op expects whole world to move for her little baby, yet she put wanting to eat at a pricey restaurant above her babies needs, making it sit outside in freezing cold?

I know there was patio heater (dont even start me on those) but it would still be cold, no?