to think that some smokers are selfish f****?

[glitzalicious]

so DH and I took my mum (who we rarely see for geographical reasons) and 9-month-old DS for lunch at a pricey restaurant in London today. It was freezing but there were no seats available inside, so at the suggestion of the waitress we sat at a table outside, near a patio heater, and ordered what looked set to be a very nice lunch.
A few minutes after we sat down, a woman in her 50s and her younger male companion came and sat on the table next to us, and both proceeded to light up cigarettes, inches from DS's face (the tables were extremely close together, and he was sitting on my mum's lap, happily eating his lunch). DH very politely asked the man if they would mind not smoking so close to the baby, to which he replied: "It's a free country". His leather-faced companion then gestured to a table at the other end of the al fresco area, with no heater anywhere near, and said: "Nobody's stopping you from moving". DH was quite stunned, and said: 'I think that's quite inconsiderate; it's really bad for the baby", and the bloke said: "I know", before shrugging his shoulders and turning back to his haggard old witch of a friend. I couldn't believe that people could be so selfish; to expect my DS (who had been sitting there before them) to either inhale all of their carcinogens (the fact the guy acknowledged that his habit was harmful to DC was quite shocking) or freeze, just so they could get their nicotine fix. Why the f* did they not move? We did get up and try to cancel our order; it was too late so we had to sit, completely freezing, in the heater-free zone. I have no axe to grind with smokers; if someone chooses to poison their own body it's no one's business but their own. But I would never think that others should suffer just so I could indulge a habit, and if someone were to ask me to stop doing something (talking too loudly in a restaurant etc) I would be so mortified at the prospect of impacting someone's enjoyment of their meal I would stop immediately, as they have just as much right to a nice lunch/dinner out as I do.
People always go on about a 'right to smoke': AIBU to think that right extends only to a smoker's home, or a child-free area? My blood is still boiling over those bastards!

You were actually sitting in the smoking zone. Whilst I agree it is rude to smoke near children, and you were there first, you sat in the smoking area.

I think YANBU. A few years ago people would have been outraged at the idea that you shouldn't be allowed to smoke indoors. I expect in another decade there will be a ban on smoking within a certain radius of all public buildings. It is unfair that nonsmokers cannot sit outside at a cafe without breathing in smoke. Certainly some smokers are considerate and wouldn't dream of causing others to passive smoke, but others are not. I was very upset when I was (9mths pregnant) waiting outside the maternity unit for my DH to collect me after an appointment, sitting under the giant NO SMOKING sign, when a couple sat next to me, lit up, and refused to move or put out their cigarettes despite the sign over our heads. Lots of pregnant women & newborn babies all coming in and out & waiting for pick ups. The hospital staff said it happens all the time. Seems very wrong to me.

Fabbychic she wasn't sitting in a 'smokers' area' she was sitting outside- there is a difference. The outside world is not only for smokers!

Does anyone else think the story actually went like this?

The OP and her family arrive at the strangely small restaurant and are asked if they have a reservation. The OP bristles angrily, thinking 'I have a baby, I don't need a reservation'. They are told that no tables are available inside but they could sit outside. DH and DM say 'lets go elsewhere'. OP refuses, thinking 'if we go and sit outside looking cold and sad someone will offer us their table inside.'. They sit outside, with the baby displayed prominently on DM's lap and the OP glaring through the window. No one moves but by now the OP is absolutely determined to eat at that restaurant. It is her RIGHT. Smokers arrive. 'aha!' thinks OP and makes as loud a fuss as possible so that the waiters notice. They still do not find them a table inside. The OP eats and leaves in a fury, convinced the whole thing was the fault of Leatherface and her toyboy.

Come on, OP, that is what really happened, wasn't it?

Nope.

I think OP knew that she may be hassled by smokers and foolishly thought they would show consideration, unusual for an addict.

My assumption is that, now you can't smoke inside a restaurant, the outside is always for smokers and there's nothing you can do about it, even if it is a nice sunny day and you'd prefer to sit outside (bloody smokers). Even if I was a smoker, though, I don't think I'd light up and blow smoke right beside a tiny baby.
However, there are parents who just wheel up somewhere, baby in tow, big beam on face and expect to be treated like royalty. 'Look, look, here we are with our baby' kind of thing. Not saying you're like that OP because I think you're getting a hard time, but the smokers might be just fed up in general of couples sitting in smoking areas with baby in buggy and then throwing daggers at anyone who lights up.

Even though I find a lot of smokers very selfish and annoying, they do have a right to smoke out of doors.

OP - YANBU.

Outside is not the 'smoking area'. The smoking ban wasnt a negotiation where the inside and outside were split between the groups. The normal rules of politeness and personal space still apply for anyone using the garden/patio area, smoker or not.

The couples behaviour was out of line and very rude seeing as how you were there first and there wasnt really enough space for them to sit between the two families, yet they elbowed themselves in anyway to get to the heater. I'm surprised your DH kept his cool and things didnt escalate on the "I know" comment. WTF!

Pay no heed to the pisstaking smokers here OP. If they didnt take the hint and quit smoking when the ban came in then they will be too bitter at being forced out into the cold to give a non-smoker any benefit of the doubt. This is mumsnet yet they have invented reasons to side with a smoker blowing fumes into a childs face.

They are a dying breed though.

No kung-fupanda I think you must work for a tabloid with that kind over active imagination! Have people never come across this set up before at a restaurant? The OP accepted a table outside in a patio area, near a heater, shielded from the wind. She wasn't at a bar/pub why would she anticipate people coming along blowing smoke in her child's face?

To be honest, I think smokers might have been a bit more flexible before the smoking ban. Now their attitude is 'there's hardly anywhere we can smoke anymore, so we're not having non smokers trying to take that over as well'.

I'm not saying I agree with them, and I think smokers didn't show much consideration for non smokers before the ban, but I think it's created that kind of thinking.

Hmmm. The other day I was walking to the shops with ds in his stroller and a man was walking in front of us smoking. The smoke was going in ds face so I crossed the road. The man also crossed and was again in front of us. So I politely asked him if I could scoot past. He was lovely and apologised and let us go by.

Yabu sorry. Smokers have been quite rightly shoved outside but they should be able to have a smoke in peace outside.

So now smokers aren't allowed to go to cafes or restaurants and have a fag with their cuppa outside in the already polluted air because there are other people there....

If that couple had a child/baby with them, would she still have insisted that they move away from the only working heater?? Would she have condemned another child/baby into the cold because the parent wanted to do what they legally had the right to do?

swanandduck the outside world is one big ashtray, seriously? What an odd assumption, so their right to smoke is always greater than your right to sit outside.
And where are all these mothers parading their babies, lseeking an acknowledgment from strangers of their outstanding fertility? In my experience parents just want to enjoy the occasional meal out with no special attention given to their offspring that may encourage the kind of seething resentment and intolerance to children displayed on this thread!

Goldenbear

I said that my assumption was that the outside of restaurants and pubs was now for smokers - as have loads of other people on here.

I also never said all parents expect special treatment but some do eg

The parents who let their children scream, cry and run around restaurants

The parents who let their kids consistently kick the seat in front of the in aeroplanes

The parents who throw hissy fits when their children aren't invited to weddings.

It is this minority that can sometimes create resentment and result in treatment such as OP has got.

If the couple had a baby with them and lit up it would've confirmed to me that they were selfish twats exercising their 'legal' right over the comfort and health of their baby.

So non smokers are no longer allowed to enjoy a meal outside a restaurant just 'in case' a smoker turns up and wants to exercise their 'legal right'??

I agree with Goldenbear.

Who are all these people agreeing with the smokers? Do they smoke themselves and are pissed off with the smoking ban?

Oh and tarring all parents with the same brush is simply not on.

Yes some are selfish, but that is not the case for every parent.

"No kung-fupanda I think you must work for a tabloid with that kind over active imagination! Have people never come across this set up before at a restaurant? The OP accepted a table outside in a patio area, near a heater, shielded from the wind. She wasn't at a bar/pub why would she anticipate people coming along blowing smoke in her child's face?"

at the idea of being a tabloid journalist!

Have people never come up with this set-up before at a restaurant? A couple who wished to smoke accepted a table outside in a patio area, near a heater, shielded from the wind. They weren't in the middle of a soft-play centre so why would they anticipate people insisting they forgo their cigarette because they wanted to sit outside with their baby?

Also highly entertained at the idea of the couple "elbowing their way in where there wasn't room." They sat at the next table - there clearly was room. Unless it was a magic shrinking table....

YANBU OP :)

Hate, hate anyone who smokes near children or food.

What kind of people huddle in with families and spark up? Makes me sad that children are generally made so unwelcome at restaurants. Not welcome inside or outside either it seems. People complain about this country not being child friendly. How are we supposed to become child friendly if this is accetable? I'm a occasional smoker and wouldn't dream smoking all over non-smokers, children or adults. IMO it's a real shame people think this is ok. Just because it's legal and people have rights doesn't mean passive smoking isn't harmful.

PeachesandStrwberry - I don't think it is so much that people are agreeing with the smokers, as disagreeing with the OP. It would have been nice if the other couple had put themselves out for the baby, as many other smokers would no doubt have done. They chose not to. The OP's blood then "boiled" and she decided that a smoker should only be allowed to smoke in their own home or in a specificly child-free area.

I disagree with the OP. I don't smoke. I don't like people smoking around me and my child. I therefore make sure that I minimise our exposure where possible. This includes not sitting outside under a heater in near-zero temperatures with a small child when it is fairly predictable that someone else may want to sit there and smoke in the warmth.

Well, that's my understanding Goldenbear. If you want non smoking you sit inside, if you want to sit outside you have to tolerate smoking. It is annoying on a nice summer's day, but like I said in a previous post, I think some smokers feel quite belligerent about their legal right to smoke outside now that they're banned from smoking inside and all you can do is politely ask them not to, but you can't insist.

Yes Swanandduck it must be the general assumption that a lot of people have now, confirmed by a majority (of smokers) on this thread??

Children do sometimes have hissy fits, scream, cry, kick the back of seats and they have to learn through socialisation the wrongs and rights of that behaviour, they do not possess that knowledge from birth. A fully grown adult on the otherhand, should be able to differentiate between a need and a want (to smoke) and its appropriateness in certain settings!

I find that when I go to a place to eat and kids are running around the tables creating havoc because the parents have finished their meal personally infuriating but I don't call the inconsiderate parents old witches,hags,leather faced whatnots etc...or demand that they keep their kids under control while we eat in peace or move elsewhere because that would be highly offensive, nor do I say all parents are selfish, inconsiderate twats (yes I'm a parent too)...but maybe we wont go there

Everyone is entitled to the right of enjoying their meal without being bothered...but that doesn't always happen and why should one person have more of a right than another?

When I take my DC out I think about where im going and what to expect.
I don't drink and don't like my DC around people who have drunk one to many so if I choose to go somewhere where alcohol is served then I know that there is a chance that someone will be drinking, I wouldn't dream of asking them to move away from my DC.

I also know that there maybe childless people there that don't have the patience for other people's kids and may find my 4 a bit noisy but i'm sure they wouldn't ask me to move tables because they didn't like kids.

At the end of the day your DC are your priority, noone elses, if I had a problem with the situation I would remove myself and my DC from that situation.
I may feel put out that I had to move but so would the other couple if they had to move for me, it comes down to the OP thinking she had more right than anyone else because she had a child.

"Also highly entertained at the idea of the couple "elbowing their way in where there wasn't room." They sat at the next table - there clearly was room. Unless it was a magic shrinking table...."

OP alluded to this in one of her posts. The tables were very tightly together and the couple stuck themselves between two families to get to the heater.

If you are packed in like sardines, then there is even more reason to be aware of the people around you. And if you are a smoker and the other people were there first/are half way through eating, then it takes a particularly selfish cnut to light up TBH.

Strangely enough, there do seem to be a lot of this type of person in the 'smoking' community.