To think it is wrong for a surrogate to have a child for two men?

[Extremelychocolatey]

The men in question are Elton John and David Furnish.

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It feels wrong on so many levels.

I am very happy for David and Elton. I certainly don't think they are too old.

They will have a lot of time for their child and no doubt a lot of love, not to mention everything money can buy!

Bonsoir - there is a difference between something being "non PC" (the implication presumably being that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and trying to show how "right on" they are) and something simply being an abhorrent and outdated idea to the vast majority of people.

I think it is a little insulting, to be honest, to trivialise the strongly held views of a lot of people on this thread as just being "PC".

The problem with two gay men bringing up a child is the the child will undoubtedly have a passion for pink scatter cushions, Judy Garland and a thing about amyl nitrate. And will probably end up a hairdresser or in show business.

just been reading up on the legalities of surrogacy in the UK - the rules are quite strict, you can't advertise that you're looking for a surrogate mother, or that you're willing to be one, the expenses paid are checked by the courts, and as mentioned the birth mother is the legal parent until Parental Orders etc have been put in place.

Yes..whether it is PC or not, if I read an OP which says it is wrong for two men to adopt a child I will see and despise it as homophobic, not because I am the 'MN police' or because I can't be bothered to think up another argument.

OMG do i wish i wash Elton Johns love child. What a life you'd have, spoilt rotten, want for nothing and I bet he's a hoot to live with.

Santamouse Pink.

I think the birth mother's rights are more important, as she does not know what she is getting into. As you cannot know what being pregnant is like from hearing or reading about it. To me it was all a big surprise, despite reading all I could.

I think she has the right to change her mind, which she well may, as women are not mere babyfactories, but often form powerful bonds with their unborn baby. Giving up the baby coming out of your body could really affect a woman, don't you think?! You have entered into the contract rationally, but when the moment is there you may feel you would rather die than give up this baby. Motherlove is a pretty strong emotion.

Pregancy and birth may well CHANGE how you feel about giving up your baby.

I am not against surrogacy, but really only feel comfortable with it if is a woman who already has children of her own, who does it for altruistic reasons.

Otherwise it smacks of exploitation.

I think the area needs very careful laws.

"Don't forget people with disabilities and illnesses who have children and whose children end up caring for them - should they not be allowed to have kids?" I have an issue with this, we can't plan for the unexpected but if people have children with debilitating illnesses or disabilities that mean their child will have to care for them I think it's selfish. Obviously if people become ill then that's a different matter.

OK, I have to concede that Truckulent makes a valid point. Morality aside, surely no child should be subjected to pink scatter cushions. There will probably be Barbara Streisand involved too.

The scary thing is that a lot of people probably have this cliche and others at the root of their prejudices, deep down in a tastefully-decorated, conran-furnished, gay-room of their soul.......

I wish not wash lol

And what Fanjo said.

well as far as I know Pediatrics is a leading US journal which is rigorously peer reviewed. The argument that studies are limited in scope is inevitable as there really aren't that many lesbian and gay families (I'm all for bigger samples!). You can't survey all lesbian and gay families, so the question would more properly be whether this is a representative sample - as Lenin says, there are other longitudinal studies based in different places and on different methods that reach broadly the same conclusions. I dont know why I am even getting into this - in my experience people who want to deny these outcomes will find ways.

I think from the table on p. 4 of the pdf that it is adjusted for class (by definition, any lesbian couple who conceives a child by sperm donor is going to have a certain level of income!) - but even if the positive effect can be largely accounted for by education and income level of the parents, it still suggests that outcomes are the same, irrespective of the sexual orientation of the parents - but that lesbian parents tend to be richer and better educated...

Oh I know that, Bonsoir And I knew there would be some lazy MNers who would yell "homophobia" but I was asking if I ABU and have been interested in the considered replies.

Chandon - just reading about it now and it seems that it's just about every website I've looked at says that becoming a surrogate should only happen after you've completed your own family - because of the very reason of not knowing what you're getting into with pregnancy/birth/attachment etc.

Well, your OP was very lazy and did sound homophobic, tbh

The only problem I have is that Elton is a bit of a nutter by all accounts. And it might be a bit of a novelty for him.

drivingmisscrazy - sorry was not a sexual thing which is what it sound like when I read it back but just a lifestyle/friends role model sort of thing and I did say I was ;( at myself;.

I have quite a few male gay friends ( and some black ones!) and do acknowledged a couple of them would make fab parents, but most of them to be honest are promiscuous in the extreme and I would not be happy with them being around my children as role models.

The 3 lesbian couples I know are exemplary parents.

Yes its gender bias - yes it illogical and ;(

No one yelled homophobia- people asked why you felt like that, op, but seems you were too lazy to return to the thread for a good few pages