To think it is wrong for a surrogate to have a child for two men?

[Extremelychocolatey]

The men in question are Elton John and David Furnish.

link

It feels wrong on so many levels.

It's a lazy argument just to shout "homophobia" as a knee jerk reaction to this.

This child will never be unloved, or cold or hungry while he has them for parents. I'm far more concerned about children being brought up by abusive, negligent or simply uncaring parents.

Congratulations to them on the birth of their baby.

I find it abhorent that a woman would choose to conceive and bring a child into this world knowing that she was going to relinquish it. I find it abhorent that two men would ask a woman to do that.

There are lots of sweeping generalisations on this thread.

Like almost any transaction or relationship between human beings, surrogacy has the potential to be abused. That does not make it wrong per se. The use of domestic workers has the potential to be abused. Not all cleaners are forced into servitude. The adoption process can be abused. That doesn't mean it always is. Employees can be exploited. That doesn't mean they always will be.

If you extend the logic of money being involved automatically meaning coercion then every one of us here is being coerced either through employment or benefits. That is clearly not the case. We make economic choices and decisions. That is because, as women, we are equal members of society, not some sub-class unable to make our own decisions and needing protection.

Of course exploitation of women goes on and should be dealt with. But the way to deal with it is not to ban every economic practice involving women and their fertility.

I think it is lovely that they want a hild, and why the hell shouldn't they?! I assume as you are on MN you have a child? Did anyone criticise you for doing so.

Smacks of homophobia to me.

Brilliant post, Chandon

wrt gay parents, I don't have any problem with two men adopting. But surrogacy- it's a big issue for me. Reducing women to baby factories is a problem

kungfu
Lots of people defend prostitution by saying "well hairdressers are getting paid to do a service too"

santamouse sometimes women (understandably) change their mind and decide they want to keep the baby they have carried and given birth to. In the US they're not allowed, in the UK they are AFAIK. I'm with the UK on this

Lenin, Boffin - the latest research, based on a longitudinal study, and published in American Pediatrics indicates that outcomes are slightly better for children raised by lesbian parents. Article here. Research article here

The money thing is an issue, as is the rapaciousness of the fertility industry (like Lenin, one of the reasons that we did ours DIY with an known and involved donor), but really there's no way that you can just magic up a baby just because you feel like it if you are gay - the level of thought and preparation might go some way to explaining why outcomes are generally so good.

Really? Hairdressers? I have never heard that said. Who are these "lots of people"?

It is lazy to shout ''homophobia'' as I'm happy with anybody doing anything to anyone as long as they both consent in a sexual or living arrangement context

But I do have reservations about gay men bringing up a child and yes in particular a boy child. For loads of reasons, some that are very unpc ;( at myself - but also loads that are valid from a socialisation and mental health point of view - does it make me a homophobic even to question this? Its a bit like anyone who questions immigration is instantly a racist.

''Lenin, Boffin - the latest research, based on a longitudinal study, and published in American Pediatrics indicates that outcomes are slightly better for children raised by lesbian parents. Article here. Research article here''

Yes Lesbian ie two mothers - sorry but so different from 2 older! dads - however you want to put it however much money they have

Careful OP - it is not PC on MN to question the right of any adult to become an adoptive parent nor to question the right of homosexual couples to adopt. The only issue the MN thought police will allow you to debate here is the age of the adoptive parents

Unless I am missing something, that's a small, geographically confined study which hasn't controlled for income levels, so I wouldn't have let it get through the review stage.

Bonsoir, I am fairly sure its not "PC" anywhere to discuss wether gay couples should be able to be parents. Its an archaic and ridiculous idea.

raspberryroo - please, at least have the guts to say what you mean rather than unpleasant innuendo.

"loads that are valid from a socialisation and mental health point of view" - such as? 'loads'? cite some evidence if you are going to make these assertions.

Why would it be OK for them to bring up a girl? I don't get what you are getting at and don't want to leap to conclusions

Chandon - of course the birth mother has rights. She has the right not to enter into the surrogacy in the first place. She has the right to choose not to undertake the massive thing that pregnancy is for anyone but herself.

How is agreeing that surrogacy should be allowed, or even agreeing that it is a good thing, detrimental to the rights of the birth mother.

Not every surrogate is forced into it, obviously.

Agree with kungfupannda's post.

I have been thinking about this - I think it really is the "buying a baby" angle that I don't like.

Does anyone remember a thread recently ish where James Khan was in Pakistan and in a fit of emotion offered to "buy" a new born baby and give her to his brother and his wife as they were desperate for a child. He was absolutely slated.

And you could argue that that poor child would have had a MUCH better life with the Khan's than in a poverty stricken village in Pakistan. But that still doesn't make it right.