To think it is wrong for a surrogate to have a child for two men?

[Extremelychocolatey]

The men in question are Elton John and David Furnish.

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It feels wrong on so many levels.

I have no objection on grounds of their gender whatsoever, but as a child of aged parents I do object. No young person leaving school, university, starting their own adventure in life should have to nurse ailing/dying parents.
I think it is selfish of people of EJ's age to have a child.

well my first thoughts when I saw the healine was

"wow they kept that quiet" (none of the publicity of other celeb adoptions etc)

then "ooo aren't they getting a bit old"

then I thought "awwww a baby"

fwiw - I have vaguely considered being a surrogate mother before now. I love being pregnant (and have been extremely lucky to have 3 full term, relatively easy pregnancies and have 3 gorgeous boys as a result who are my world) and to be able to give someone else the joy of a child to love and cherish and to bring up would be wonderful.

I doubt the chil would be any more bewildered than in any other "unconventional" family where it's not the stereotypical birth mother/birth father bringing the child up.

So I get accused of being homophobic but when I give reasons for my concerns about the surrogacy and raise questions, none of you can give answers.

Tootles
Yes I do, Lots of women "choose" to act in scat porn, or become prostitutes, but then if you do a background check you find out that none of them were millionaires to begin with. That's economic coercion.
Economic coercion is handy, the class system is handy: you can get people to do anything for money

I've had three surrogate babies for childless friends of mine but would never do it for two men.

Part of me really believes that a baby/child needs a mother. My husband for example is perfectly capable of parenting but there is a certain something he lacks that i have. I cant put my finger on what that something is, it's a kind of instinct that i have and he doesn't, like a built in 'nurturing'.

my immediate reaction is that Elton is just too old. Poor kid is going to spend the best years of his life caring for elderly parents

whoa.....so we don't buy babies? What about IVF? that, in some places, is only an option for the wealthy. Or adoption from abroad costs money. And if we're talking about right to have a baby is a right if you really cannot afford one? baby born into DV? baby born into addiction? Right if you need any help at all?

If DF was a 48yr old woman, and EJ an older man all it would do is raise a few eyebrows. So why should it be different just because they are two men?

They have tried to adopt. They went through the lengthy process. And were turned down.

Why shouldnt they have a child? Why should they not be able to use a surrogate like thousands of other couples do?

I dont see anything wrong with them using a surrogate and having a child. God knows it wont want for anything.

Morticia "carried below her heart" means that a woman is more than a mere carrying case

was ok when that prick ronaldo did it though?

So when Zachary asks his parents "who is my mummy? where is she? can I meet her?" what will their response be?

I'm sure this is something people considering having a baby through more unconventional methods consider - given that they've been through the adoption request and not rushed into this as an alternative I'm guessing they've taken time to plan and think about these things. The answer probably depends on what they arranged with the surrogate? A lot of single parents-by-choice or same-sex couples use donors or set up co-parenting relationships, they agree what level of responsibility and contact everyone will have. They may have all agreed she'll have absolutely no contact at all; they may have agreed she'll be god-mother and be close to the baby.

And though I have no idea on their personal situation - I know that the majority of parents who become parents in this way tend to bring the children up knowing the situation rather than spring it on them at a certain age. Any child in any parental situation can be made to feel like a gift, a commodity or a burden - its about how you raise them not how they were conceived.

I'm not sure on my feelings about it but I do understand Sakura's concerns about surrogacy. I don't think it's wrong but I can see what she's saying about the potential for it to be abused.

the issue I have with surrogacy is this:

If a woman gave birth to a baby, and then said, "I would like to give a childless couple the opportunity to bring up this baby, so I am going to sell it for x amount," there is, IMO, not a single person on this thread that would agree that was right. Yet a woman can essentially decide that she is happy to be paid to fall pregnant and then give up the baby when it is born.

Having a baby through surrogacy is no different to selling the baby after it is born, the only difference is that you create the baby with the intention of selling it, rather than selling it after the birth...

all i can think is why not.They have been in long term relationship they can afford it.they love each other.And im with smokin santa no one say anything if there was a woman at 48 .

and if i could afford it i would adopt to even though have my own dc

Sakura, give it a rest. In this instance they have not coerced anyone.

It may happen and I know it will be going on but you can't tar every situation and say that it happens across the board.

In this instance she might have given up work for 6 months and they may have paid her salary and expenses or they may have given her money, so what?

They wanted to have a child, they tried adoption and were rejected so looked into surrogacy and found women to help them.

I say good luck to them, they will no doubt adore the child and I think surrogacy has a place in society.

I am afraid it does stand up, Lenin, if you really look at the research properly.

Why does everyone assume they will have an army of nannies and not do the night feeds? We know nothing about their arrangements and if they want to be parents then the is no reason why they would not be looking forward to all that brings.

I would be happier about this if they were in the 30-50 age band and a bit less decrepit looking, tbh.

I have to say that they don't strike me as being as egotistical as many of the other celebrity couples that have hit the headlines in recent years over adoption of babies and children - and tbh I think they are a much more "stable" couple to become parents than many others. Obviously there are reationships where children are born/brought into them early on where it lasts and is very happy. But the trend in lots of celeb relationships seems to be quite fleeting marriages.......iykwim.

WannaBe, your example of creating a baby in exchange for cash is illegal in the uk. Legally a surrogate can only receive expenses.

This is all verified in court before the Parental Order is granted.

I agree with Sakura.

And I think all of you who think the birth mother to not be of importance are actually putting women (mothers) down.

Is it a "small deal" carrying a child (under your heart or however you pout it)? It was a big deal to me! It changed me physically and emotionally. I have not been the same. I loved the baby before it was born. Is it really no big deal?

How can there be so many women who think the surrogate mother should have no right? is giving birth just a commodity now?

I think surrogacy should never be undertaken for economic reasons, as really, you are turning poor women into baby factories with no rights.

I think the rights of the birth mother should outweigh the "right to a child" by the non-birth parents.

If you are going to start a thread like this it is better to fully explain what you mean and why you feel like you do. My concern is their ages - I have nooooo problem with gay couples having children at all but I do think it is good to give children good role models of either sex. By that I mean that if a couple of the same sex have a child then a person of the opposite sex to them in the life of the child would be a good thing (same goes for single parent families - it is good for the child to have someone around - if possible - of the opposite sex to the mother or father on their life).

Now please, don't start attacking me for saying that it is good for a child to have both people of both sexes in their life as I am not homophobic or against single parent families at all, it is just better, if possible, for children to have role models of both sexes in their life and where gay couples etc are concerned it would be good to try and put this in place. A close lesbian friend of mine makes sure her son has good male role models and her son loves spending time with grandad too!

With Elton and David - they are too old