to think women writhing around in suspenders and stockings is...

[hatwoman]

...not really family viewing? I've barely watched x-factor in my life but I had thought everyone said that, for all its faults, it was something that had got families watching telly together. I was expecting wholesome boy bands and gutsy young girls. Clearly I'm naive and a prude.

YANBU I have a 2.6 year old ds and was thinking ahead to when he'll be old enough to stay up a bit later on a saturday night. frightening actually.

I wasn't paying any attention to it. My MiL & FiL were watching. I looked up to see some bums gyrating ont he screen!
I am not at all prude but it was disgusting.
This tapes each week for my dd. I'm going to FF that bit.

I have the feminism topic hidden because I can't be doing with the fighting.

Surely you're not suggesting you cannot be a feminist if you hide the Mumsnet feminism topic?

amijee, their body shape wouldn't change if they were wearing some clothes FFS!

Ijust don't buy that young girls are sponges who can be drawn into being treated like bimbos and dressing like whores,
I've liked christina for a loong time, I'm intelligent, confident and have only slept with four men.

It's not just about the way women are presented to children, it's much bigger than that. It's the way women are viewed in society as a whole as sex objects. It's not just girls who are getting a skewed view.

"They will spend hours pawing over fashion pages wanting to be as thin as some of the anorexic models. So to have their musical role models looking a healthy weight will have a massive impact on their own self image and allow them to feel beautiful when they have curves."

So they are replacing one impossible standard (very skinny) with another (toned with big plastic tits.

Rihanna and Christina don't give a shit what teenage girls think they are only after their money. Don't make out they are doing some sort of public service.

oh do you think that they wouldn't be in the spot light without doing this?

LOTHS I don't know where to start with that! if you don't think children's environment and the stimuli they're exposed to through their lives and childhoods effect how they behave, well....

dueling, it is all very ,very sad, imo. i do think it is actually quite toxic to expose children to this.

I thought Christina especially looked gorgeous. But the dancers, OMG. Horrible :(

Thankfully my very sensible DSD was pretty disgusted too.

I don't think it was any worse then some music videos out there today.

Maybe not pre-watershed but Christina's performance was to promote Burlesque which is women dancing like that in their underwear.

They are pop stars FFS - it's in their job description to show flesh!

Cheryl Cole has sung on there wearing very little - as has Kylie.

What about Kylie and her gold shorts - she was gyrating a lot with the camera zoomed into her butt.

What exactly is bothering people - the flesh? the suspenders? the gyrating? Or do you just feel you have to be shocked cos you all have kids. You wouldnt have batted an eyelid in your youthful pre children days.

I just dont know what all the fuss is about.

Wasn't madonna doing exactly this 25 years ago?

Why are the views of english teenage girls of any concern to Rihanna, as long as they are buying her music and the pay cheques keep rolling in then she won't give a monkeys

bibbity - of course you can be a feminist and hide the topic - I would just like to recommend that people who identity with OP may be interested in some of the discussions there!

"or" not "oh"
meaning could they not be curvey role models were they not stripping on telly?

(are they all that "real" in terms of body shape though? )

"Rihanna and Christina don't give a shit what teenage girls think they are only after their money."

Wrong and very ignorant.

They are pop stars FFS - it's in their job description to show flesh!

It was the sexually expicit dancing on a show where lots of children under 10 will be watching, especially as it's the final.

I just think you should give kids a bit more credit tbh

"They are pop stars FFS - it's in their job description to show flesh!"

oh well that's okay then!

the likes of madonna's Vogue video was NOT shown on prime time at 8.30 BTW.

the fuss is about the timing of the show and thinking that you are sitting down to watch a primetime saturday eve show, pre watershed, then finding yourself watching something very adult

would it be ok to feel outraged, amijee, if this was on CBBC? i suspect you'd say 'yes' on the grounds that it is unsuitable for the target audience. this is the point. not objecting to burlesque or madonna per se, just that it has been thrust upon our children, as it were.

amijee this is not about prudishness.

It's about wanting women to be valued for more than just their bodies.

I would have slightly less of a problem with this, if the male dancers were all half naked and wiggling their own arses as well. But that's not going to happen, because the objectification of men only happens in gay porn, not in mainstream family viewing.

Why is it wrong and ignorant?

They aren't writhing around and semi clad on stage for their own enjoyment. Don't be so naive. They are multi-millionaires because they both exploit their young audience.

I wouldn't know- I'm too young