to think women writhing around in suspenders and stockings is...

[hatwoman]

...not really family viewing? I've barely watched x-factor in my life but I had thought everyone said that, for all its faults, it was something that had got families watching telly together. I was expecting wholesome boy bands and gutsy young girls. Clearly I'm naive and a prude.

Every artist is helped and encouraged. Some artists choose to dress like that and others dont. What about when Take That first started and were promoted through the gay market in pants, to perform at places like GAY. Duffy, Adele, all these people are succesful without dressing like that. They made that choice so I am afraid it is down to the artist for me.

I thought your argument was that 'it's her choice'.
Where you would allocate 'blame', then? Since you now accept that 'blame' is warranted. Do you think it's down to the producers of ITV? And what are they influenced by, and what are they influenced by, ad infinitum?

they were good artists. It's not about removing all suggestiveness.

Explain how they are manufactured? Or are you just that ignorant?

Oh and my fantasy dad to my fantasy Ma Harry - Iggy! He was/is a saucy performer.

They were dressed like that because sex sells particulary in the entertainment industry. They dress and dance like that because its what people want to see and it has a positive impact on their record sales. I don't have a problem with it

I don't allocate blame. I think the parents should have decided whether it was suitable for their kids or not. Mine were to busy watching Home Alone with a large amount of violence in but they do not copy that at home.

Yes, Take That are the same. They were created and put together by executives. Adele is a different class, not a variety act who dresses in suspenders.

I think you are all missing the point about different artisitic styles.

Annie Lennox has a great voice but doesn't really do the whole dancing thing.

Some artists have a lesser voice but are more famous for their dancing/performing. ( madonna/cheryl cole/ollie murs)

They all appeal to different types of audiences. As it happens, I like both styles - depending on when I am listening to them. It's a bit pathetic to state that the latter are of the making from male marketing executives - it's insulting to the women who CHOOSE to perform in this way.

The hypocrisy on this thread is as bad as cheryl cole dissing a girl band for being scantily clad and coming out to perform in pants!

Where on earth are you getting 'hypocrisy' from amijee?

Hypocrisy - because you are prejudiced against a certain dance style which is popular amongst young people.

However, you have no issues with scantily clad women on Strictly doing a lot of grinding of the hips because it's considered a "classic" dance style. ( the tango, flamenco, salsa...they are all VERY sexualised styles of dancing)

I said it before and I'll say it again - bunch of old prudes! ( and most of you are likely to be younger than me!)

'They dress and dance like that because its what people want to see and it has a positive impact on their record sales.'

but we can see from this thread, that the majority of us did not want to see it, and some have complained. The TV bosses chose to put it on for us. They are the ones dictating the demand, not us.

You're missing the point amijee.

It's not prudish to not want children exposed to overtly sexualised behaviour.
It's damaging to them. The fact that it's so mainstream is hardly an argument in favour of it, no?

'the tango, flamenco, salsa...they are all VERY sexualised styles of dancing'

It's not about removing all suggestiveness. Just that overt sexualisation is not appropriate on a family entertainment show which young children are watching. No one is against people dancing however they want in clubs.

"It's not about removing all suggestiveness. Just that overt sexualisation is not appropriate on a family entertainment show which young children are watching. No one is against people dancing however they want in clubs"

Oh come on...other dance styles are merely "suggestive" and this is "overt sexualisation". Why don't you listen to yourselves?

I come from a culture where all dancing is considered an evil influence. If I played a clip of stricly and last night's X factor to some of this culture, I'm sure they would say it was all as bad as each other.

They'd be wrong though, amijee, eh?

'I come from a culture where all dancing is considered an evil influence.'

that's possibly why you can't see that tango and flamenco are nothing like Xtina's performance. Some of the culture that you came from may well say " it was all as bad as each other", but they would be wrong.

We're not from that culture, but we know the difference.

I'm still grappling with why it didn't offend me. Maybe it was because it was all so pantomime?

I often come over all reactionary reading threads about the "sexualization" of children, because whilst I am deeply concerned about ease of access to hardcore pornography on the internet, I just cannot see how (say) a 10 yo could possibly be being sexualized by wearing party shoes with a heel. I think people get worked up by the wrong stuff, tbh.

"We're not from that culture, but we know the difference"

Do you know how fricking patronising you sound?

So what is the difference? Why is salsa or tango in see through backless mini dresses ok? Is it because it's main stream? Is it because conservative looking people in their middle age go and learn these dance styles in the evening after a day's work as a doctor or lawyer?

I find this society full of double standards. When I was a child I used to wonder why it was ok to wear a bikini on a beach but not be allowed to wear a bra ( or pyjamas for that matter) to a supermarket.

Years ago, I went to a party in the winter. I went straight from work and was wearing a heavy wollen jumper with no vest top under it. The party got very hot and steamy so my friend and I took our tops off and danced in our ( very sensible marks and spencer) bras. When I told my boyfriend about the episode he dumped me shortly afterwards as I did not fit into the type of person he would want as a Lawyer's wife!

The world is full of hypocrisy....

Jenai, it's probably the slow drip-drip process of this type of stuff being on TV that has led to you not finding it offensive. That is how it works. It has changed the threshold of what you find offensive. It will take a lot more blatant sexualisation for you to be offended, but when they broadcast that daily, then it will take even more offensive stuff to shock you. In the end, nothing will shock you.

"It's not about removing all suggestiveness. Just that overt sexualisation is not appropriate on a family entertainment show which young children are watching. No one is against people dancing however they want in clubs."

I think Aimjees point was no one is complaining about strictly, when on the whole, the dancing is far more risque then on X Factor.

And claig you haven't answered my question on how CA is manufactered?

Heels on girl's shoes does not desensitize us enough to find sex with children inoffensive.

Just because other cultures think that tango is no different to bare asses in suspenders, doesn't make them right. There is a difference. This culture doesn't think they are the same, which is why Princess Diana danced the tango.

'So what is the difference?'
the difference is tango is not semi-naked and doesn't focus on simulating sex.

'When I was a child I used to wonder why it was ok to wear a bikini on a beach but not be allowed to wear a bra ( or pyjamas for that matter) to a supermarket.'

because a bikini is beachwear.

The world is not full of hypocrisy.

Whe you say young children, what age are you talking about here? 5/6/7?