to think women writhing around in suspenders and stockings is...

[hatwoman]

...not really family viewing? I've barely watched x-factor in my life but I had thought everyone said that, for all its faults, it was something that had got families watching telly together. I was expecting wholesome boy bands and gutsy young girls. Clearly I'm naive and a prude.

Bugger. Meant to say, I didn't spot any sex simulation. Which is why I wondered if the repeat was edited.

"So you are saying MsSparkle she doesn't care about her audience, she's just in it for the money?"

Where did you dream that from?

From your post.
You said she only dances like that to promote her film.

"like the one at the lapdancing club?"

No like the clubs that no doubt your children will go to.

Wrt Rihanna, I'm always a bit about her lyrics, although I suspect I'm not understanding them maybe.

The rest didn't really bother me.

walkinginaWUKTERwonderland what? Why are you putting words in my mouth? She is promoting the film she in, where she dances like that in, so promotion is going to consist of the same style isn't it?

What gets me is that a lot of people are saying 'I don't think this is suitable to be seen by children'
A study is commissioned which basically says Yes, your suspicions are correct, it does indeed harm children.

And some people just won't take that into consideration, because they personally like it.

Different thing to consider, and then dismiss, but to just shrug is to me, incredible.

She is just a variety performer, who dresses up in different outfits to sell her latest image and the accompanying song. Did Frank Sinatra have to strip to his underpants to sell himself?

I didn't put words in your mouth.
That's what you said.
Please clarify if I am wrong.

I think you have just completly read into something that isn't there tbh.

Can you clarify to me where you got that i said she doesn't care about her audience?

Would a real voice, like Edith Piaf, ever have resorted to appearing in underwear to sell a record? She didn't need to, becuase of the strength of her voice and music.

I am sure Edith Piaf didn't no. But i am also sure that if Edith Piaf was around today she wouldn't appeal to todays audiences because times have changed and peoples tastes have changed.

No. I read what you wrote.

'She was promoting a film with lots of dancing like that in it. I think the dancing was reflecting the film more then anything else.

When she is promoting her own albums, you don't normally see that sort of dancing by her. In fact, she doesn't do alot of dancing in her shows because her voice is her main focus.'

So she dances like that, to promote the film, which makes money. She didin't take into account the preteen audience of XFactor.

Do Annie Lennox or KT Tunstall do it? No, because they are not manufactured artists, influenced by male executives.

'she wouldn't appeal to todays audiences because times have changed and peoples tastes have changed.'

it is marketing executives who create the changes and decide what to promote and whether to create and fund films like Burlesque or not.

"She didin't take into account the preteen audience of XFactor."

There should be no she in that. The film promoters and ITV decided for her to go on XF, not Christina herself. She is probably contracted into fulfilling booked promotion. Being an Americain she probably doesn't know about the 9pm watershed plus it wouldn't have been her deciding what time that show went out anyway.

I think you are putting way to much blame on the wrong people.

Madonna was not a manufactured artist and did plenty of videos like that.

Can you explain your take on what a manufactured artist would be?

of course Madonna was helped and encouraged. They promoted her and gave her publicity. She fitted with what the industry wanted to push.

Manufactured artists are like the ones on X-Factor. Boy bands are manufactured. As the ex-boss of Chrysalis records said, it is not real music and is killing real music.

So what's that got to do with CA and Rihanna? Niether are manufactured artists.

Yeah and The Pope is not a Catholic.

Kate Bush's performances were always quite suggestive. As were Debbie Harry's.

I don't think of either being male execs' puppets.

Just because Annie and Katie aren't like CA and Rihanna, it doesn't make them better or worse, just different. The music industry would be a very boring place if everyone just stood there and sang. Variety is what makes it so successful and caters for all different tastes and styles. Just because you don't like one style, it doesn't mean it rubbish, it just means it not your taste.