to think women writhing around in suspenders and stockings is...

[hatwoman]

...not really family viewing? I've barely watched x-factor in my life but I had thought everyone said that, for all its faults, it was something that had got families watching telly together. I was expecting wholesome boy bands and gutsy young girls. Clearly I'm naive and a prude.

Save that sort of thing for after 9pm, not while Im having my evening meal, I nearly choked! I guess all the boys and men watching will have enjoyed it, but it was too much 'in your face' especially the lady to the left of Aguilera - I thought she was 'mooning'! Yet again the message is being drummed in that girls have to 'take it all off' in order to get somewhere and be somebody. Very sad.

Good morning.

I agree with a few comments made overnight.

Firstly, these women are performers and provide a package of entertainment - not just singing.

I went to a Madonna concert years ago ( way before I had kids) and i was actually more shocked at her swearing in front of young kids than her dancing.

Also, I totally agree with the comment made by ellesbelles about eastenders etc. I am a big fan of this but there are loads of issues that are raised in this program pre watershed.....infidelity, rape, having sex in a car bonnet, gay sex. A lot of people would find this most unpalatable for their kids.

Surely anyone can see that X factor is a show about the music industry and they have guest singers promoting their latest music/videos? You don't have to be that bright to realise there will be simulation of their own music videos. If you don't want your 5/8/10 year old kids to watch this....then don't!

The watershed is not some magical button that absolves parents of all responsibility where it comes to controlling their kids viewing.

My own personal view is that it is FAR better for kids to watch these sorts of things WITH their parents so you can have a sensible discussion with them about it and not go doing it all behing closed doors. When my 4 yr old was watching eastenders with me one day at 7.30pm and Syed and Christian were frolicking, I expalined to him what it meant to be gay and he was completely unphased by it.

As far as the feminist/rape/exploitation argument goes ask yourselves one thing. Do you honestly believe that censorship is the answer to this? Because last time I looked, the level of exploitation, rape and domestic violence in countries where there is heavy censorship ( eg some muslim countries) is absolutely staggering. I, myself, was nearly subject to a terrible assault in a foreign country. And my crime? I went to the cinema with some kids in a country where only men go to the cinema!

I think some of these anti- choice posters need to look around the world and open their eyes to what goes on in cultures where there is extreme censorship and look at the way women are treated.

Has anyone mentioned Pan's People yet?

Or Elvis (the Pelvis)

There's nothing new in any of this.

I was rather gobsmacked by it last night.

Im far from a prude, I like porn, and i love sex, and am very comftable in my sexuality.

I believe in free speach.

But 8:30pm, on a 'family entertainment' show, its just not acceptable.

If there had been some warning before hand, then... but really, thats what the watershed is there for, no?

IMO, it is in no way the same as watching music videos. You, ( or most people) are aware they are overly sexualised, and can chose to not play them, or to keep the children from not playing them ( ha, hopefully... under 5's at least). Its not the same as eastenders or some naff soap, as while they might have hard hitting storylines, they dont tend to have women flasing their crotches in peoples faces.

And while this kind of behaviour is not new, it is new to be shown on a family show at 8:30 on a saturday night. As little as 10 years ago it would have been more late night channel 4 or something.

Obviously its all about money,. and it goes without saying that people like rhianna and xtina, will not give a shit, its their job, and they are just getting paid to do it, Its their management, and the xfactors that is to blame.

Ah. I see they have.

amijee is talking sense.

anti-choice posters??? whom might that be then?

I think what you should be more worried about is that they are repeating XF at the moment on ITV. In the morning!

A quote from Christina; "One thing that i don't get about society today is a woman can do the exact same thing as a man, yet she is critasied for it and labeled for it."

Not a fan of extreme censorship but I would prefer program makers to remember that their bread and butter viewer will be the poor sods who can't go out anymore because they have children. Dcs don't watch the X factor because I think it's horrid to view and comment on people and the five minute rise to fame and success.....I don't want one of my children's dreams to be an X factor winner!!

I didn't notice Robbie Williams in his pants, in fact if he'd stripped or fornicated over his duet like Rhianna!

ha ha i was outraged too!!! we are getting old....

When i thought about this last night, i kept thinking about the song "Can't hold us down" and the message it sent out.

So what am I not supposed to have an opinion
Should I be quiet just because I'm a woman
Call me a bitch cos I speak what's on my mind
Guess it's easier for you to swallow if I sat and smiled

When a female fires back
Suddenly big talker don't know how to act
So he does what any little boy would do
Making up a few false rumors or two

That for sure is not a man to me
Slanderin' names for popularity
It's sad you only get your fame through controversy
But now it's time for me to come and give you more to say

This is for my girls all around the world
Who've come across a man who don't respect your worth
Thinking all women should be seen, not heard
So what do we do girls?
Shout out loud!
Letting them know we're gonna stand our ground
Lift your hands high and wave them proud
Take a deep breath and say it loud
Never can, never will, can't hold us down

Nobody can hold us down
Nobody can hold us down
Nobody can hold us down
Never can, never will

So what am I not supposed to say what I'm saying
Are you offended by the message I'm bringing
Call me whatever cos your words don't mean a thing
Guess you ain't even a man enough to handle what I sing

If you look back in history
It's a common double standard of society
The guy gets all the glory the more he can score
While the girl can do the same and yet you call her a whore

I don't understand why it's okay
The guy can get away with it & the girl gets named
All my ladies come together and make a change
Start a new beginning for us everybody sing

This is for my girls all around the world
Who've come across a man who don't respect your worth
Thinking all women should be seen, not heard
What do we do girls?
Shout Out Loud!
Letting them know we're gonna stand our ground
Lift your hands high and wave 'em proud
Take a deep breath and say it loud
Never can, never will, can't hold us down

[Lil' Kim:]
Check it - Here's something I just can't understand
If the guy have three girls then he's the man
He can either give us some head, sex a roar
If the girl do the same, then she's a whore
But the table's about to turn
I'll bet my fame on it
Cats take my ideas and put their name on it
It's airight though, you can't hold me down
I got to keep on movin'
To all my girls with a man who be tryin to mack
Do it right back to him and let that be that
You need to let him know that his game is whack
And Lil' Kim and Christina Aguilera got your back

But you're just a little boy
Think you're so cute, so coy
You must talk so big
To make up for smaller things
So you're just a little boy
All you'll do is annoy
You must talk so big
To make up for smaller things

This is for my girls...
This is for my girls all around the world
Who've come across a man who don't respect your worth
Thinking all women should be seen, not heard
So what do we do girls?
Shout out loud!
Letting them know we're gonna stand our ground
Lift your hands high and wave 'em proud
Take a deep breath and say it loud
Never can, never will, can't hold us down

This is for my girls all around the world
Who've come across a man who don't respect your worth
Thinking all women should be seen, not heard
So what do we do girls?
Should out loud!
Letting them know we're gonna stand our ground
Lift your hands high and wave 'em proud
Take a deep breath and say it loud
Never can, never will, can't hold us down
Spread the word, can't hold us down

She's basically saying that women aren't going to be suppressed into these creatures that are seen and not heard. Christina is not only seen, but very much heard all over the world.

The problem is not the performance itself (although I appreciate there are a range of views here), the problem is the time and situation of its broadcast. If it had been shown later on a recognisably 'adult' show, there would not be an outcry.

The issue is that it was essentially soft porn shown pre-watershed (perhaps at the 'softer' end, but soft porn nonetheless - e.g. one dancer bent over facing away from the audience shaking her backside and running her hand down her crotch).

Is it really acceptable to show soft porn on a mainstream family show? If people agree that the premature sexualisation of children is not good, how can this be acceptable?

"If people agree that the premature sexualisation of children is not good, how can this be acceptable?"

I don't agree premature sexualisation is good and i do think ITV should have thought about it beforhand and put on after 9pm to be on the safe side. But imo, despite what people say, the XF has never come across as a family show to me and i do still think that parents can switch it off, like some did, when those performances came on. When i was 10, performances like that wouldn't have affected me at all and i suppose that's because it wasn't even in my mind to sexualise anything.

I think the only way i would have thought about those performances being sexual would be if my mum had pointed out the fact and made a huge fuss. Just my opinion of coarse.

Plus making a huge fuss over it has led to more publisicity for the show hence more people will go and watch the performances. More advertising for ITV.

So it's win - win for ITV.

I complained. First time I have ever felt the need to that about a tv programme.

Redderthanred the warning was it was Christina Aguilera and Rhihanna performing, have you never seen them before? I've rarely seen any of them wearing much. And Xfactor usually has sexy dancing somewhere. Isn't it much easier to turn it over than to sit through something you find distasteful and spend the rest of the evening complaining about it.

Again I agree with everything Amijee said in her last post - especially the point about how women are treated in countries where there is extreme censorship. We should really count all of our blessings here.

OFGS this is not about anyone wanting extreme sensorship, there already IS a vehicle for people to express themeselves or whatever AFTER the watershed! Asking for adult themes to stay on adult times/programs IS NOT supressing anyones right of expression.

Madonna was NEVER shown being that sexual on a program like that at a time like that. If her music videos were shown earlier they were often DIFFERENT videos recorded specially for a mixed audience as opposed for the adult ones that were shown at a time when there was an adult audience. Producers put her on after the watershed and I seem to remember her 'expressing herself" quite a bit! not being on till after nice did not 'hold her down' or whatever!

I grew up loving madonna, but because of the time and context she was shown I knew that what she was doing was an adult thing and had its time and place, as opposed to it being everywhere at everytime.

The 'for' side have gone down a ridiculous route now, refering to extreme censorship etc, that's not what anyone is asking for here, just a time and a place, i.e. not on front of children.

Bubblebrain, you do know that Xfactor is hugely popular with all age groups, generates acres of media coverage anyway, and little girls play Xfactor in the playground?
I don't see what's wrong with complaining about something that is actually harmful to children's development. On a family show. FGS.

anyone have a list of the x factor sponsors? google is just comming up with talk talk who I already don't use so that's not much of a protest!

I think for me its the double standard in it all. When matt came on earlier in the series and sang in his vest, despite some comments from the judges, it was ok and all the girls were loving it.

If jls come on and took their shirts off it wouldn't cause the same up roar. It would be ok for the girls to swoon at them and say they are fit.

Just like its ok for gavin henson to whip his chest out almost every week. Thats ok I suppose all before the water shed.

If its a man doing it, its fine for women to look and them and cheer and say they are fit. But when its a woman being sexual in some way, its wrong, she must be a whoar who is only out to make guys want to have sex with her.

Its a double standard at its finest!

Complained to OFCOM. First time ever. Thank God DD was in bed.

Oneortwo - Who ever said Xfactor is a family show? Since when have adult programmes all been after 9pm? I wouldn't let my daughter watch plenty of things that are on way before the watershed - such as most News programmes, Eastenders, Hollyoaks etc etc. TV producers don't decide what your children watch, you do.

There's a big difference between Matt prancing around in a vest and what some of the backing dancers were simulating!

MsSparkle you are totally missing the point. Nobody said they were whores. Read the thread again.

Happybubbly it was me who said XFactor is a family show. It's a singing talent contest broadcast early on a Saturday evening.

X Factor is a conspiracy to keep the ill-educated and unintelligent gawping at the TV instead of doing something about their situation. Music, colours, 'sexy dancing' - turn off and read a newspaper or something.