to think women writhing around in suspenders and stockings is...

[hatwoman]

...not really family viewing? I've barely watched x-factor in my life but I had thought everyone said that, for all its faults, it was something that had got families watching telly together. I was expecting wholesome boy bands and gutsy young girls. Clearly I'm naive and a prude.

HerBeautitude Not sure how we could get to that point, but I do feel like outrage over women wearing revealing clothes is just adding to the problem.

If people are not angry about this sort of thing, then they are really not paying attention.

Are you that oblivious to how this plays out in the big wide world?

Women don't have to be provocative, there are plenty of female performers that aren't. Women should be able to be provocative though, without being judged too harshly. Being allowed to express your sexuality is empowering? Having the choice is empowering.

It's not about women wearing revealing clohtes per se is it?

It's about the context of the society in whcih they wear those clothes and why those clothes denote a different social and sexual status to men.

Joan Baez never had dance routines.

"I would rather my daughter knew there are a hundred other paths to take. That feeling happy with yourself does not equate to strangers finding you fuckable."

But there are a hundred other paths for a woman to take. Not all women work in lap dancing bars or are models.

walkinginaWUKTERwonderland I'm not entirely sure where you got the idea that I thought feeling happy with yourself did equal strangers finding someone fuckable. My point was that it shouldn't matter what someone wears, what they do for a living or how they dance, anyone who is happy in themselves is an inspiration. Whether it's performing in a way they love or researching complex sciences.

well they may know...but they wont be gyrating them or exposing them to all & sundry - because they will also know how to respect themselves.

Although raising my children in such a society does worry me all the time...because no matter what you teach them at home - once they are at school and meeting other people they are exposed to all sorts. Scary really..

"Women don't have to be provocative, there are plenty of female performers that aren't. Women should be able to be provocative though, without being judged too harshly. Being allowed to express your sexuality is empowering? Having the choice is empowering"

noone should be able/allowed to be very sexually provocative on front of children though. I thought that was the point of this thread!

There already is the choice to express sexuality after 9pm on telly. Showing it before does nothing positive!

Didnt like it at all and I used to be a lapdancer !

Too early and just downright uncomfortable viewing. When the acts were all singing all the status updates were about who sounded best and as soon as xtina and rihanna started that was it all updates were overtaken with sleazy comments from all men and silly "try-hard-to-impress-lads" girls who said theyd 'do' rihanna- eejits!

huddspur - all women are judged on their looks and how available they are. No matter what their job.

Kaloki - It shouldn't matter, but it does.
see how many women obsess over their looks and think they're worthless unless they conform. And the new conformity is a narrow version of sexuality, and being sexually available with it.

Ellesbelles - as said above, it makes our jobs as parents much much harder in the face of this one-dimensional onslaught.

Christina's dance was kind of boring. Was expecting something much more spectacular going by the reactions it got. Though it is fairly typically US Burlesque, which is much duller than British Burlesque. (Still watching the film when it comes out though - only for Dirty Martini!)

walkinginaWUKTERwonderland And that is wrong, I agree. However, the calls for them to put more clothes on aren't going to combat that.

Section 1.20 of the Ofcom Broadcasting Code states that: ?Any discussion on, or portrayal
of, sexual behaviour must be editorially
justified if included before the watershed,
or when children are particularly likely to
be listening, and must be appropriately
limited.?

This is the grounds for reporting to ofcom.

Christina's video was clearly a portrayal of sexual behaviour.

KM I assume you're just watching it on youtube now, which is a bit different from it popping up on the tv at 8.30 with young kids still up don'tya think?

it would not have shocked me, were it not for the TIME and context that I saw it!

And I've never disagreed with the time and context being wrong. I'm disagreeing with the condemnation of the acts even existing.

Why is it just the women doing this stuff?

too late now though
the harm is done

Seriously, if you can't see this is sexist bullshit you should open your eyes.

Anyway, night all!

well if you agree that the time was wrong please complain! Please don't let the fact that there is a separate issue being discussed on here about the actual acts in their own right distract too much from the watershed one!

(I know they're not completely separate issues BTW)

Have complained to OFCOM.

dailymail article

I'm surprised they didn't mention MN. It's all a bit whowillbethefirsttoeatitslef round here. I am not sure each would survive without the other. In fact, forums the world over would die without the DM.

So, the man thing. Can we have cock shots on the next XF?