to think women writhing around in suspenders and stockings is...

[hatwoman]

...not really family viewing? I've barely watched x-factor in my life but I had thought everyone said that, for all its faults, it was something that had got families watching telly together. I was expecting wholesome boy bands and gutsy young girls. Clearly I'm naive and a prude.

cant find your report taboely

I dont really understand this trhead. is it that men should also be underdressed? Or that women shojudlnt be? There is no hierarchy surely?

FWIW. I don't like to see anyone man or womao=n portrayed as just a body, or subhugated whatever. But I don't really see the xfactor as a biggie here.

"Although it does make sense to say that women shouldn't have to be sexually provocative, it makes no sense to say they are lesser people, and lesser role models if they do"

but lets not forget that if they do, right or wrong, that level of sexual provocation should be after the watershed.

TBH I would not have complained if the same performance was on immediately after the watershed. IMO watching tv after the watershed = giving consent to being exposed to some more adult themes (within reason).

I think people are overplaying how provocative it really was

yes he was violent towards her - but there wasnt any "sexual" violence reported as far as im aware - so I dont think we should be saying that sort of thing either.

He hasnt been ostracised - but he served his time & his image/music career has suffered. it is not OK to beat your girlfriend up and he has paid the price for that, which is good.

I think you'll also find that JLS are often whipping their tops off when dancing - and teenage girls everywhere scream.

Its not just women that are selling this sexy image to get somewhere in the music/film/tv industry - its men too that are being pressured. not to the same extent as women, but its definitely there.

Unfortunately its all part of popular culture and has gotten so bad now that i really do not feel as though anything can change - no matter what people do in terms of complaining etc. You would be suprised how many folk these days think its all perfectly acceptable and I see so many young girls going to school in mini skirts that their parents allow them to wear.

I completely recognise the problem - but it been allowed to get this far...and I dont think there is a way back.

Im only 31 and yet I dont remember even thinking about boys, my body, sex until my late teens!

I often give a wry grin when I hear 'Nanny State' being complained about when it's a childrens rights/development issue. Nannies are supposed to look after chidren.
Kaloki, tbh I would rather my DD didn't grow up admiring someone who 'conforms to the patriarchy' of what a woman should be. Young, hot and gagging for cock.

What about how women are viewed by women? Some of the most nasty, spiteful comments towards women are made by women.

Look on the XF thread tonight. They were calling CA Miss Piggy and all sorts because she has put on some weight, most probably due to her divorce.

It's women who judge women and knock them down. So maybe until women sort themselves out, things will never change.

I would urge people to read the report for themselves. Description of anything as "nanny state" is pejorative.

There were numerous, measured recommendations.

One relevant to this thread is:

vi) Music videos

Sexually provocative music videos are
commonplace and easily accessible by
children on TV and on DVD. Section 1.20
of the Ofcom Broadcasting Code states
that: ?Any discussion on, or portrayal
of, sexual behaviour must be editorially
justified if included before the watershed,
or when children are particularly likely to
be listening, and must be appropriately
limited.?416 Yet sexual posing and suggestive
lyrics are found in many music videos
shown before the watershed. In the
case of DVDs, music videos escape the
statutory classification required for other
types of content by virtue of a loophole in
the Video Recordings Act 1984.417

I therefore recommend that:
? Broadcasters are required to
ensure that music videos featuring
sexual posing or sexually suggestive
lyrics are broadcast only after the
?watershed?.
? The current gap in the regulatory
protection provided by the Video
Recordings Act 1984 be closed,
either by removing the general
exemption for ?works concerned
with?. music? or by lowering the
threshold at which exemption is
forfeited. Proposals to lower the
threshold at which music videos
lose their exemption are currently
before Parliament418 and should be
supported or even strengthened.

Discussion on Radio 5 Live now.

I agree with you there oneortwo pre-watershed is just silly. I just disagree with the talk on this thread about how these women appear to be letting womankind down.

herbeautitude So the answer to that is to say that women should cover up more? Surely that's still having them judged the same way?

<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100418065544/www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/Sexualisation-of-young-people.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sexualisation of young people review

what I mean Kaloki, is that I hope that people who think the performances were just women exercising their rights to express themselves etc, would STILL think that they should do so on an appropriate show at an appropriate time

I'm 30 Ellesbelles, and I don't think it was anywhere as prevelant 'in our day'.

ellesbelles, nothing will change if we all sit there and say "nothing will change".

Of course things can change. People effect change all the time. That's why we can all vote and don't wear bustles anymore.

herbeatitude - are really men taken so more seriously than women? Come on - w're talking about a light entertainment show. of course they'll dress men and women differnly. And yes, there is huge sexism in life, but you can't surely blame how being female in a work context (where the issues are usually about child care etc) with sexim in entertainment, where of course the issues are about tits and bums.

Do you think life for you and me would be better if rianna covered her bits up? I do't really think so. I'd be happy if she did tho. I don't want to see them

not sure why I said "only 31"....I clearly think Im still some young thing...! haha

walkinginaWUKTERwonderland tbh I'd rather any daughter of mine grew up admiring women who were happy with themselves. And could see beyond what they were or weren't wearing.

glad to hear men complaining on radio 5. The bloke on now is saying that there was no form because previous final performances were westlifey
also saying that the producers and presenters will have seen dress rehersals so should not play the innocent card!

and thats true walking - i dont think I ever saw anything on TV like this when I was growing up - thats why i was so ignorant to the opposite sex etc in general. I was far too busy enjoying myself with Barbie, My Little Pony & out riding my bike...

I had no idea what a crotch was...let alone how to gyrate mine...

I know you addressed that to HB, catsinthebelfry, but yes, I do think life would be better for you and me if the quickest route to success for Rihanna was not because she has a hot body in a world that values a hot body more than anything else a woman can offer.

"Do you think life for you and me would be better if rianna covered her bits up? I do't really think so."

yes i think that if the watershed was respected my life as a parent would be a little easier

No I dont' think women should cover up more. I think men should get their pecs out. Nah, not really, I think that this is a long term thign where we ahve to change attitudes to women, so that they can wear what they like and not be dehumanised by it - but above all, that they are first and foremost perceived as people, not as decorative objects.

But we won't change attitudes, by burying our heads in the sand and pretending that the problem doesn't exist.

EllesBelles but our daughters will know.

Kaloki 'tbh I'd rather any daughter of mine grew up admiring women who were happy with themselves. And could see beyond what they were or weren't wearing. '
I would rather my daughter knew there are a hundred other paths to take. That feeling happy with yourself does not equate to strangers finding you fuckable.

People like Xtina/Rihanna/Kylie/Madonna/Britney etc are not just singers anyway. They are performers. When you go and watch their concerts, they put on a show and that's what people pay to see and most love the shows.

Madonna wouldn't have made her fortune if she had just stood there and sang. It was the Madonna image people bought, the reinventions, not just the songs.

If you ever watch Christinas last tour for Back to Basics, it wasn't perticularly sexual, but it was a great show and most importantly she sang every note live.

I find Rebecca very dull to watch. Not because she doesn't dance around in her underwear but because she just stands there, dull as ditchwater and sings.

sorry tabolye

Not your fault but I can't read PDFs, I know this is all serious stuff but I think I kmust have missed someting tonight as it was all bad taste but not such to have created this fuss.