to think women writhing around in suspenders and stockings is...

[hatwoman]

...not really family viewing? I've barely watched x-factor in my life but I had thought everyone said that, for all its faults, it was something that had got families watching telly together. I was expecting wholesome boy bands and gutsy young girls. Clearly I'm naive and a prude.

Mssparkle- that album is amazing (best not let the fogies know about nasty naughty though)

No. It's just that it seems so bleeding obvious to most of us that showing women as sex objects is damaging to women and especially young girls. ( it damages men too )

It's beyond me how you can't see that.

I think everybody has seen Rihanna's crotch by now. Why doesn't she go the whole hog and take all her clothes off and really push the boundaries? That would be the logical conclusion of all this.

MsSparkle - i don't hate Xtina as I have never met her, I just think she isn't that good. The best of her career is now behind her.

leotards are obviously designed primarily for sport / dance

The costumes on x factor were not designed with comfort / ease of dancing in in mind!

Right, so what shall we do about the slavery that still exists?

Shrug and say there's nothing we can do about it?

And it's not OTT to compare the dehumanisation of women with slavery. Most slaves in the world are women and children. A lot of slavery is sexual slavery. ANd it exists because men feel a sense of entitlement to fuck women, whether women want them to or not. And the view of women as fuck toys, underpins those assumptions. And the X factor regularly promotes that dehumanised view of women.

Lady have you got Bionic? Because it's just a brilliant as Stripped. I walked down the isle last week to "I am" (the stripped down version.)

Gosh, well I go to see ballet a lot, and have taken my daughters to the Royal Opera House and the Coliseum. I have seen the Royal Ballet, the Paris Opera Ballet and the Kirov, and you know what, I have never seen a ballerina in stockings and suspenders, showing off her brazilian wax and simulating being anally penetrated before. Which ballet companies do you go to see?

Ok. You lot think it's harmless. Despite the report linked to above that shows quite clearly the detrimental to girls, boys and society in general.
People often change their minds when confronted with evidence.

I wonder why it's so important to you to buy into it.

applauds Her Beatitude.

Corlan - your words are the exact words to be used by a lot of extremist muslims about women in western clothes. Can't you see the analogy?

So - how far do you think women should be covered up? How much flesh is too much? How much hip swinging is gyrating?

It's not black and white - it is very very grey.

PS - I have acually been told to wear longer shorts in a gym of all places!! They were normal running shorts and I was stretching on the floor and I was told by a trainer that the manager thought it was too revealing!!

nickiename I was thinking exactly that. Dancing does not equal sex-simulation. Not for any form of dancing that I know about, classical or modern.

Have the "it's all harmless fun" crowd actually read that report?

Nickiename - when was that? I think I watched most of the last bit of the Xfractr but I don't remember that, or perhaps I wa]sn't paying atteniton, that's perfectly possible? Was there really a scene of anal penetration on prime time TV?. Not a sracky question, I'm really curious?

To equate Rihanna on the X Factor to slavery is ludicrous

OK - im off to bed now as I'm exhausted from last night's "gyrating" in lots of bare flesh.

No doubt this will run and run...

To read my posts as equating the two is ludicrous.

Was thinking same as amijee...no different from hot gossip in the 80's. Although maybe a bit more bum showing on 1 of the dancers.

Who'e 'equating'? It's a continuum. Obviously.

What would be the minimum age ITV would recommend for the XF?

I reckon that they gym is great for nudity, apart from perhaps a supportive sports bra or jock strap. But why does singing necessitate simulated sex and revealing costumes?

I didnt say we should shrug and do nothing...

If you dont like it, turn over - the viewing figures will drop & X-factor will be no more...same goes for most shows I think - if they dont pull in the viewers they dont last??

Im completely aware of the fact that lots of men in this world view women as fuck toys but at the end of the day the media will not change because a few people have complained. It simply generates more interest & more publicity in what they are putting out there...

Singers like Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Kylie have all gained from wearing very little and dancing provocatively. I recall Take That doing the same when they came on the scene. This wont change!

But if you teach your kids to respect themselves & respect others then you have succeeded.

"What would be the minimum age ITV would recommend for the XF?"

If they want to recommend a minimum age then it needs to start after 9pm. That is the whole point of the watershed, so that programmes can have a more adult theme.

Rihanna was wearing what very young children would see most women wearing on a beach or at a swimming pool. My daughter has seen much sexier dancing at cultural events - at Carnivals most people dance like this. Where is all this prudishness coming from? I agree with Amijee. I was mostly struck by how amazing Rihanna's hair and make-up looked, her voice sounded pretty good too. If you all want to see something bad out of something beautiful and creative then I feel slightly sorry for you.

There shouldn't be a minimum age for the X Factor as it's a family show.
What there should be is more thought going into the booking of acts and the appropriateness of the routines and costumes given the target audience.