In thinking that Wagner wasn't all wrong about Cheryl?

[cupcakesandbunting]

When he said she is a council estate girl who got lucky?

Nothing wrong with coming from a council estate, I lived on one myself for most of my childhood. But she didn't get where she is now on talent or charisma so old Vargener hit the nail on the head with that one, oy finks.

I swore to refrain from all talk of X Factor but here goes...

I thought Wagner defended himself very well last night. I think Cheryl believes her own press a little to much and its going to bite her on the bum.

She was lucky to get where she is today. She has a massive team of people around her to keep the 'Cheryl Machine' working. Without them she'd quickly be back to the chav thug she was before! She was so quick to attack him last night, yet she didn't much like it when her designer friend did the same to her the other day (if you believe the papers that is)

But Jordan, KK et al also have stylists.

Cheryl has the good sense to listen to hers.

Also we don't know whether she's fulfilled or not.

God I do think there's an awful lot of snobbery here.

Who cares if she comes from a council estate? Is that in itself a commentary on her character or talents?

Cupcakes, the diff is that Dannii is grown up, Cheryl isnt!

I have no idea why I'm arguing about her btw. I'm not a great fan.

Why is Dani grown up and Cheryl not?

Is it because Dani's got a baby?

She's only a few years older than Cheryl, they're both adult women - why would we consider one more adult than the other?

I think the point isn't where she came from as much as she is undoubtedly lucky to be in the position she is, for me anyhow.

i couldn't care less that she came from a council estate - she just gives every impression of being thoroughly unpleasant.

No-one cares where she is from. I think that people care that she's up her own bum now. Look at the Take That men. All working class, all down to earth northerners. Even Gary, the big Tory.

This thread is ugly, IMO. An individual who has worked incredibly hard doing what she is contracted to do, is ripped apart by onlookers because she is doing something in the public eye.

She is no different to anyone else - she has a job to do, she is doing it. Some parts of that job aren't as nice as others, just like any job.

I hope all the feminists among you feel truly proud. When would a man be ripped apart for his appearance and style? When would a man be ripped apart for having a stylist? Yet because she is a woman she is expected to have innate style and beauty, and anything else is cheating

haven't seen x factor but actually cheryl definitely isn't still in the public eye through luck. as i understand it, louis walsh totally ignored Girls ALoud (doesn't do girls) and they made many of their management decisions themselves. it all had to be sorted when she went on x factor, they hated him. how many of these winners are even remotely quoted now? will young? can't even think of any other winners apart from leona lewis, so it's not like these people stay up by magic.

If no one cares where she came from, why is the fact tht she was brought up on a council estate so often brought up?

Oh alright then...Simon Cowell's stylist needs sacking, and as for his hairdresser...does he even have one??? It would appear not

Does anyone else think that Simon Cowell's teeth are just too white?

Wagner really is a knob jockey. He gets booed because he's absolutely shite and, according to some opinions, not a nice person to boot.

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if he wins or not, the whole thing isn't about talent, it's a pantomime, with Simon and and Louis playing the ugly sisters.

As to Cheryl, she seems canny enough to me. Whether the show was an appropriate place to raise her point, I don't know, although it does fit in with the whole boo/hiss mentality.

I never read the papers, life's too short to get het up over this kind of shite really, although if Wagner did say what he's reported as saying, then he's a bigger dick than I imagined.

I don't think she did attack, personally.

Hand on heart until last nights X Factor I didn'tknow she was from a council estate.

SC teeth are definately too white!

The thing with Chezza is that she had such a dramatic image change following the assult thing. Would she have done it had she not been caught? She had to get away from that image in order to continue her career. Not sure who's decision it was to give her an image overhaul but I doubt it was Girl's Aloud themselves.

lol at that clip. he definitely said it. hahaha.

Why d'you doubt that it was Girls Aloud themselves?

They seem perfectly competent, media savvy people.

I do think there's an element of sexism in all this - like beautiful women can't possibly make business decisions themselves.

(Disclaimer: I have no idea if they make business decisions themselves or not, but after a decade or so of making money for a record company, one assumes that they have more power than they had at the beginning of their career)

cupcakes - I was going to, but when a bunch of woman start bitching about a high-profile woman, sometimes there is nothing to say and you just have to leave them to it...

Agree Louis Walsh was very hands-off with Girls Aloud. They took a lot of business decisions themselves. Kimberley manages their finances and has done for years. Bimbos? I don't think so.

womEn sorry, not on my usual keyboard...

I do not think that at that point of their career they were that media savvy. Hence why I doubt she made that decision herself. I think that Chezza was steered in that direction. The leap from combats/crop tops & corn rows to style queen is too great IMO.

Plus you hit the nail on the head, she has more power now than she did then....

gawd, isn't a person allowed to grow up a bit?

aitch - quite, I bet some of the fashion decisions some of us took at the age of 20 are pretty dodgy too...

And some people can't shut up about one misjudged moment in a toilet! That was so 2003, folks... GET OVER IT!

punching another woman in the face is hardly a 'musjudged moment'