to think that people who feed their kids junk to the point they are obese should be visited by social services?!

[sawdusty]

It makes me so angry when you see these morbidly obese children (fat from food, not any other medical reason) waddling around and there mums buying them more bars of chocolate and packets of crips, wtf are they DOING?!

I think mugglewump has a very balanced view of diet. I have 2 under 2's and so am just starting to enter the world of properly balanced diets. I already find it stressful to feed my eldest what I feel are the right things but I will continue to do this because I know that what I do now will set him up for the rest of his life, I really do believe that. I agree that for at least under 5's food should be completely under the control of their parents. Obviously you can give choices but these should be healthy ones for example weetabix or muesli for breakfast. I believe that parents should be in control of what their children eat and therefore they have to take responsibility for the results of the diets that they choose for them. I'm aware that I am not dealing with children of a particularly demanding age food-wise but really hope that this is one of the areas I can stay strong on as they get older. I actually think there is a huge amount of advice out there about feeding your children healthily. If I'm honest, my home-made meals probably don't taste as good as shop-bought ready meals but that's life and it's something for me to work on!

As always Hecate speaks the most sense.

The only way a size 22 is anything other than massive is if you're eight foot tall. Or a hippo.

I find it depressing that obesity has become so normalized that some one can consider a size 22 anything other than massive.

Agree about cooking skills, problem can be the paperwork the kids have to plough through! We did precisely 2 lots of cooking in my grammar school and one of these was a sandwich FFS! We spent weeks doing paperwork for it - I know it's important to learn about nutrition etc but surely the actual cooking is better!

My dsds' local sink school is better but they still only do one dish every 2 weeks, with the other lesson being paperwork.

I think it's unfair to make parents provide all the ingredients though when they'd be cheaper in bulk.

And some kids will go home raving about their cooking but they still won't be allowed to do it at home. Very hard for kids to change if the parents don't let them.

chippingin
My points have no substance? What part of my attitude is it you object to, examples please, I am genuinly curious. Is it the fact that I think free gym memberships are expensive for the NHS and don't help solve the obesity problem? That I don't think teh NHS has the resources to deal with everybodys self confidence/self esteem issues? That healthy cooking should be taught in school? That I lost weight by eating less junk and becoming more active? That I think years ago ignorance caused my husbands and fathers teeth to rot and that people have no excuse to be as ignorant nowadays? That obesity is a serious health issue that is putting peoples health at risk?? Please tell me what you find obnoxious.

I am not the one calling peoples "idiots" and telling others to "fuck off" like you did LookToWindward

Size 22 is very overweight (if not clinically obese) even if you are over 6 foot tall.

This thread has obviously touched a very raw nerve for you and I'm sorry if I've upset you but people are going to disagree with your views and should be allowed to do so without you resorting to abuse

Its true that a lot of people dont realise how you dont have to be that "big" to be obese.

At 5 foot 5 I hit the "obese" mark at 13 stone. Anything in the 12's and I'm just "overweight" but at 13 stone and above I'm clinically obese.

I've been 13 stone before. At 13 stone I wear a size 14 in most shops - in a meaner more slim cut style or shop it might be a 16 on the bottom but I'd basically be a size 14. I was 13 stone the Christmas after I had my daughter and have a photo of me on Christmas day wearing Size 14 Oasis bootcut jeans and a top from Wallis in size "medium".

A lot of people think "obese" is a dirty word (it is!) that means absolutely grotesque but in reality its not.

I made my daughter overweight when she was born. By 6 months she was off that recommended centile chart line that they are meant to be on because I overfed her milk. I am really skinny and I suppose I just never thought I would have any problems with my child putting on weight as I am skinny. I drink loads and loads of milk everyday and it never makes me put on weight so I didnt really think I suppose.

She has lost a lot of weight now but still has a little podgy belly. It worries me when I see articles saying you set up eating habits in the first few years and kids dont shake puppy fat etc. I have always eaten a lot of very bad foods but only weigh 7 and a half stoneish so having a child who puts on weight more easily has been difficult for me.

I am trying to change the way my family eats but it is hard changing things you have been doing for a lifetime. I dont think it is just obese people that make their children overweight.

Agree again Tatty. I am 13 stone,5'6,size 16-18 and I would certainly not call myself obese. I am overweight I realise I need and want to lose some but to call it grotesque, I would feel very upset. Sizing also depends on your shape. I was size 12 before I had my little one and was very pear shaped (size B cup) now gone to a size D cup and look more like an apple than a pear.

LookToWinward - oh dear oh dear. Yes a size 22 is large but does not make you a hippo - jesus your must have size 0 judgey pants

I will say this again - no-one would say its healthy for a child to be obese.

But some of the attitudes and language used here is fecking awful.

I teach DS that everyone is different and not to be picked on because they are fat/ginger/have a squint etc etc. I would hate to hear how you refer to fat folk in your homes in front of your kids.

Because the fact that you are referring to overweight people as hippos who waddle is fecking shocking. Saddos.

Well said Loflo

Children often stop when they are full. Its our insistance that they must clear their plate and eat it all up which stuffs it up and we give send them all the wrong messages all of the time. No one is perfect, few are exempt. Mine have seen me stand on the scales, and now they do it. Then a conversation about how much they each weigh follows, and I can see it in my sons face that as the heaviest he is uncomfortable (he is also the oldest). I am very conscious of what they eat, but not over the top (maybe a bit slack from time to time). My point is nature has set them up, its nuture which stuffs it up.

Its what they eat which is key, not how much.

Hecat - just read your post and it is very sad and touching. You are right - it is so sad to see obese or even quite chubby kids whose parents are setting them up for possibly a lifetime of problems and self esteem issues of which the child really has no control over - how hard is it going to be for these kids to turn this around when they are older. I do see it as a form of abuse if the parents allow this to happen. All these kids need help whether the parents are in denial and also those who are worried and trying to address the problem.

snowflake - my DD has spent most of her life hovering just above the centile chart. But then, she's on 98th for height as well.

Who said you overfed her milk? How old is she now? Small children are meant to have a bit of a belly...

I am big bird, size 16/18 all my life. My DD1 was a prem baby and then turned into a Buddah of epic proportions and was off the scale weight wise, she is now 9 and very tall and slim (still very heavy), DD2 was always always underweight and now is tall and very slim, DS1 was a biggish baby and is absolutely in proportion for height and weight and my newest one at 12 weeks was a big baby when born and now very tall and doesn't weigh very much at all.

All have been EBF for 6 months and breastfed for a year and a half each. They all eat the same and are all completely different.

That said, clearly obesity does run in families, overeating and portion control can get out of control. I can think clearly of two families at our school one of whom have 2 children and the other 3 and all of the family, mother, father and children are substantially overweight. There do seem to be a lot of overweight children at our school and the local council have started and initiative to get families to eat healthier with cooking courses. When they handed out the invitations to join in with this intiative (which they did to ALL children in the school) all it did was make my DD1 think she was fat! I am not sure that the families that really need this sort of help would have responded but i guess it has to be offered.

But OP you are being a bit inflammatory with your statement but I do take your point.

YAB a bit U

YABU. IMO grown ups are grown ups and make their own decisions. Gene pool needs thinning out a bit anyway. [runs off cackling maniacally]

I agree with OP. My mum is an extremely intelligent woman - Masters degree from top 5 uni, good job, but she's clueless when it comes to nutrition. I think there was also an element of guilt at working such long hours so she never said no to junk food.

My then 7 year old brother was told by a dentist that he had the teeth of a 70 year old because my mum allowed him to drink 6 cans of coke a day. Even as a child I knew that it was wrong but when I challenged her about it she would say that she knew best. After that trip to the dentist, she started buying him full sugar lemonade or Appletiser as a healthier alternative to coke. I'm not making this up!

I was an obese child and bloody miserable for it. I still deal with the emotional effects of the resulting bullying to this day.

Both of my parents were, and still are obese, and I think that when you get to that size you can develop a skewed idea of what normal is. When I asked my mum for help with eating healthier as a teen she said 'you're not getting an eating disorder are you?' The more I asked her to buy low fat yogurts and drain the fat off mince, the more junk she would come home from the shops with because she was convinced I was trying to make myself anorexic. A couple of years ago I joined Weight Watchers and my dad was shocked and asked why. When I told him I was obese he didn't believe me and said I looked normal.

I wish someone - a doctor or social worker - would have intervened. It would've been a lot easier to change my eating habits as a child.

"LookToWinward - oh dear oh dear. Yes a size 22 is large but does not make you a hippo - jesus your must have size 0 judgey pants"

Dress sizes are a very blunt measure but whatever way you dress it up a size 22 is massive. Huge.

"I teach DS that everyone is different and not to be picked on because they are fat/ginger/have a squint etc etc. I would hate to hear how you refer to fat folk in your homes in front of your kids."

You're not seriously comparing what is a life style choice - i.e. greed - to something like hair colour or a sight defect are you?

This is an example of what is wrong with society when someone can compare a physical impairment to someone who just eats too much.

If you are fat it is because you eat to much and don't move enough. Not because you're big boned or naturally chunky or your metabolism doesn't work that way or whatever excuse you care to use. It's basic physics: energy in vs energy out.

If you respect your own body so little than you're prepared to destroy it because you can't control yourself then yes I will judge that.

My kids were brought up to respect their own bodies and to take responsibility for the choices they make.

Windward - so you are saying that you do bring your children up knowing that it is fine to abuse fat people?

It is not as simple as energy in vs energy out.

You would do well to educate yourself.

"It is not as simple as energy in vs energy out. "

It absolutely one hundred percent is. It's basic physics. The human body cannot burn energy it does not have.

If you are fat it is because you are greedy and eat too much.

In a way I agree with Winward (bear with me, it has about one million addendums) in that if you take the caloric intake of an obese person, plus the energy expenditure of one, and compare it with that of a so-called "naturally thin" one, they are NOT generally going to match. The "naturally" thin one is likely to eat less, or less often, and/or the average "not naturally thin" person, if they were to shadow them for a week, might barely be able to keep up with them in terms of energy and speed.

However, when it comes to greed - I'm not sure the word sits well with me. There are some metabolic issues - those aside of any medications or medical complications or endocrine system problems, thyroid etc - simply that of how much "lean" mass you have which fuels the fire. But a bigger issue that I do honestly believe you can be born with and is simply luck of the draw is that of appetite, or how your appetite works. Some people naturally do have, and were born with, larger appetites than others. This is evident in babies. Many people will say their children all have different sized appetites. And it is evident in adults. There's always someone who "didn't realise" it was lunchtime in the office and there's always someone who wolfs down their packed lunch at 11:59 on the dot.

True greed may well be the difference between the super morbidly obese and simply those who are a bit overweight, as well as the choices of food they make. But if we forget about the extremes for a minute and focus on the difference between the "naturally thin" types and the "chunky always had to watch it struggle" types - it is almost definitely a difference in appetite. And those people who are size 12 (so curvy but not fat) but have to watch every morsel to stay at that weight, are anything but greedy, they live a life of deprivation. I know this because I am one of them! Apart from when I was pregnant, I've never really "given in" to my appetite, and its vanity alone that stops me being super morbidly obese.

I appreciate that Winward is not talking about people like me who struggle but win, but the super morbidly obese that dont.

One day I might get older and wiser and stop giving a shit. Then what?

Not all children stop when they are full.

My youngest dd (age 7) really enjoys the process of eating and loves food, both high-calorie (chips) and low-calorie (raw carrots), and has been that way since she was tiny.

She will eat her way through pretty much whatever size portion is put in front of her -- in a restaurant once she put away most of an adult-sized plateful, and even though by the end she looked as if she was in pain she was still doggedly stuffing the chips in until we intervened and took it away.

I keep a very close eye on her portion sizes because I know she won't leave food of her own free will -- I give her small portions, and make sure she has plenty of fruit and veg to fill up on. She doesn't seem to be hungry on what she gets, so it's clearly enough for her. She also gets plenty of exercise. She does ask for food in between meals, but more as a reflex or response to boredom than because of actual hunger.

She's not fat, remotely, but I am in no doubt that she could become that way if she were left to her own devices re portion size, and if she was in a family where eating lots of high-fat, high-sugar processed food was the norm.

Lol at longtalljosie's early post on the thread.

'How do you know there isn't a medical reason?'

There never is, you know. It's just called eating too much.