to think that people who feed their kids junk to the point they are obese should be visited by social services?!

[sawdusty]

It makes me so angry when you see these morbidly obese children (fat from food, not any other medical reason) waddling around and there mums buying them more bars of chocolate and packets of crips, wtf are they DOING?!

Do you smoke?

true, my sister had piled on the weight in the past few years and I wondered what she was eating - then she told me it was drink and she has been a secret alcoholic for a little while now.

I don't mean to be rude by asking that question. I used to smoke...able to give that up when pregnant with dd1... can't get over my food issues. But then you have no idea of my history so I wouldn't expect you to understand

"If kids are being brought up by people like you, it's no wonder bullying is rife - seeing as you feel it's fine for someone to be bullied for a choice they make (according to you - which is horse shit anyway)."

Am I bullying when I judge the man who beats his wife? What about when I judge the morons who drop litter? And those those who cycle on pavements? What about the smoker who won't quit even though they've just been diagnosed with emphysema?

Does that make me a bully? Would that make you a bully?

I'm trying to see the good in your posts but come on? Overating is as bad as domestic violence?

I don't smoke. I used to many many years ago when I was young and stupid. I stopped when I realised it was ruining my health and my sense of taste.

And when I refer to "drunks" I'm not talking about the hooligans out on a typical Saturday night.

"Overating is as bad as domestic violence?"

Never said nor implied that. I said that we all make value based judgements based on choices people make.

That isn't bullying.

Neither am I.

"If kids are being brought up by people like you, it's no wonder bullying is rife - seeing as you feel it's fine for someone to be bullied for a choice they make (according to you - which is horse shit anyway)."

Am I bullying when I judge the man who beats his wife? (you)

Looktothewindward is here in disguise she's really Tosh Lines

I ]fear we are never going to see eye to eye and I am actually quite glad of that. Goodnight. You are wonderful and without flaw.

"Am I bullying when I judge the man who beats his wife? (you)"

I'll try to explain this again. We make judgements based on our values all the time. I gave a number of examples - some extreme, some not so extreme - of behaviour that I'm sure many people would openly and without shame judge and pass comment on. I did this in an effort to show that forming a low opinion of someone based on behaviour that is entirely their own choice is not bullying.

Let's try another example - is having contempt for someone who allows their dogs to shit in park bullying?

I'm tired and would really like to go to bed...however... me being overwight is not going to cause an innocent child to go blind. Is being overwight an antisocial act? No.

"Is being overwight an antisocial act?"

Well that is where we disagree. I believe it is antisocial in that it normalises a perversion in behaviour and causes a huge drain on public spending that could be better spent elsewhere. And I think it does impact on others directly - have you ever had the misfortune to be next to an obese individual on a long haul flight?

And let's be clear here - I'm not referring to those a few pounds overweight or with a few extra inches (not that we shouldn't aim to do better).

Ok off to bed now. Sure I will stand by what I said tomorrow.

x posts sweet dreams (low cal sweet dreams obv)

I hate the argument that alcoholics must find it easier to give up booze because they don't need it whereas everyone needs food. It's bollocks from an addiction point of view.

People who need to give up drinking alcohol are exactly the same as people who need to lose weight because they must still physically drink or they would die very quickly, the same way that dangerously overweight people still need to eat. Perhaps they need to eat and drink even more because they are usually underweight, malnourished and dehydrated.

People who are alcohol-dependent do need to drink more in the initial stages of withdrawal. They drink lots of water, fruit juice and soft drinks. They can't get away from the physical act of drinking if they are to have a hope of recovery IMO.

That must be quite difficult compared to having a problem which makes you overeat, in which case the goal is to simply eat far less.

Yes, I agree, they are, strictly speaking, choices. They are. We all make choices in every situation, no matter how bad - the battered wife who stays with her abusive husband and then he kills her - made a choice to stay. Do you hold her in contempt? The anorexic who dies weighing just 4 stone made a choice to not eat. Do you hold her in contempt?

Is it not far better to have compassion for people than to hold them in contempt for making choices that you feel they should not make? Or even to understand that standing outside a situation and seeing things clearly is not the same as being in a situation and being in emotional turmoil.

Yes. They are choices. They just don't feel like them. When it's happening. To you. Eating yourself to death - and I do mean death, or starving yourself to death, or sticking your fingers down your throat so much you do actual damage are 'choices'. But they're also not. They're compulsions. They are a symptom of a mental health problem. I am not talking about your normal chubster I am talking about the person who has been told that they will not live until Christmas, who looks at their two young children and knows they are going to grow up without a mother but still binges.

That is not normal behaviour. It is against every survival instinct we have to knowingly engage in a pattern of behaviour that we know will kill us. The only time we do that is if we have serious psychological problems.

Food is more important than death. Either not eating it or eating it - two sides of the same coin.

It's not about food. Food is your weapon of choice. It is about what is going wrong in your mind.

And holding people in contempt for a mental health problem is, well, it's horrible. It shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding.

A quarter of the British public are medically obese. One in four.

Are you telling me that 25% of the British public have these 'serious psychological problems'?

Really?

In fact if I were one of the people with genuine, major psychological issues around food then I'd be pretty upset that all these people were trying to justify their choices and their behaviour by jumping on the mental health problem bandwagon.

Obesity is at least as damaging to society as alcohol abuse and yet seemingly its okay to judge one but we have to be tolerant and understanding of the other?

Hecate - "The anorexic who dies weighing just 4 stone made a choice to not eat. Do you hold her in contempt?"

I get the feeling LooktoWindward holds at least 25% of the British public in contempt, we must be in there somewhere, what with the alcoholics, people who ride bikes on the pavement, people with dogs, ugly people who choose not to go out wearing bags over their heads. Blimey. Is there anyone left we can respect? Hang 'em all.

These parents are foolish . . .sorry , dont want to sound self righteous, but if my kids were getting fat i wouldnt buy any biscuits, full fat milk, icecream, cakes, crisps, chocolate, sweets, or anything fattening. No sugary drinks.

My sister is letting her son eat and eat and he is getting fat. . . .I dont know why she doesnt just say "No, you have had enough !"
The house would be full of fruit, vegetables, meat, fish, pasta, dairy (eggs, yogurt etc).
Any fatty treats would be literally just that !

I Europe the people are slimmer . In France and Italy you dont see the fat people you see here. Especially the young ones. They are slim and lean. Here, its full of fat blond Vicky Pollards !!!! (little Britain it truly is !)

"Obesity is at least as damaging to society as alcohol abuse and yet seemingly its okay to judge one but we have to be tolerant and understanding of the other?"

Um no Windward, that's bollocks. An obese person on a mars bar binge isn't a danger to others. I would have thought as a copper you would know that!
I know a couple of policemen, and paramedics, who dread saturday nights as they have to deal with violent, abusive, vomiting binge drinkers. These are damaging to society. These are the ones who mean clear up operations after last orders, to make sure there is no shattered glass, blood and vomit left on the streets in certain areas. As a cost to society, not just to the nhs, alcohol causes far, far more problems than overeating.

In Europe. . .sorry i missed ou the "N".