to think that my dcs should pay for their own cars, houses etc?

[overthemill]

this is really bugging me. I am from a fairly normal working class not at all well off probably poorish background. My parents loved me but had nothing so I never got anything from them once I left home. When I was at home doing summer jobs (as a student) my mum would ask for £10 a week (in the 70s) towards my 'keep'. I never got pocket money. If I wanted something I had to work for it (I got my first p/t job at 13 and worked all through school and college). My mum used to make up my grant (about £30 a term was what they had to pay) out of the money I gave her in the summer. My last year at college my dad refused to fill in the application forms so I didn't get a grant that year at all and I had to work 2 days a week to pay rent, eat etc. Incidentally I came out of college with a few hundred pounds in savings. Two days after my finals I got a job and have worked ever since.

I have no beef about this at all - I think it was 'normal' for my family and most of my peers, there were a few people I knew whose parents had more money but really very few.

I am now married to a lovely dh (not our first marriages) and we have 3 kids between us. I came along when his were 2 & 4 and ours was born about a year later.
First is due to go to Uni in 2011 ad it has suddenly become apparent to me that dh is expecting to fund in full her education - ie at least £10k a year for the 4 year degree, then do the same for the next one and then the next. I have always kind of known this but hadn't ever realised he was planning to wholly find it, not just 'top it up'.

And then, last weekend we had a real argument about the kids cars - dsd has juststarted driving lessons and will want a car. He blithely said, 'we'll have to buy her one' and still later 'we need to look into how we can help them all out with deposits when they want to buy a house'.

Now I am totally and utterly gobsmacked by this. He does come from a different background from me. Privately educated, Oxford Uni and he had help from his very comfortably off parents at various stages. He thinks this is normal. I think it is totally and utterly abnormal.

You need to know that we do not have much money at all - he doesn't earn loads and I lost my job last year and have struggled to find alternatives, he will probably get made redundant next year - and his payout will not be huge. We are always overdrawn and live paycheck to paycheck despite our best endeavours.

AIBU - please tell me, what do you think - are you all planning to impoverish yourselves to give your dc's money?

OP - it is clear that you cannot afford to help your children in the way your DH proposes, your own financial security comes first.

I am that you haven't even talked about it though, and that if he wanted to be able to provide financial assistance that he hasn't been putting money aside for years already.

My parents funded me entirely through Uni, with a little help from my Mum's parents.
They paid for me to learn to drive (17th birthday present), and when I graduated they bought me a car - nothing flash, it was secondhand but it lasted me for the next 9 years and I paid running costs myself.
They gave me the deposit for my first house, and paid for my wedding.

They didn't have to do any of that, but they could afford to without it compromising their financial security.

I would love to be able to help DS (and DC2 due in March) in the same way, and we have already started to plan for it. We won't compromise our security to do it though, so if the only thing we can finance is education then that will be the priority.

i ment 17 if they wnted one and yes if they would rather not and put it towards education thats fine too but basically im not getting into debt to stop them getting into debt.

The OP clearly can't afford all the provisions her DH expects them to make but that does not make her husband's invalid, they're his principles just like she has her own.

Personally, I am undecided as to whether a fearless, absolute financial independence is healthy and favourable at 18. Yes, you are legally an adult but some 18 year olds can make some really bad decisions with no life experience behind them, that can be detrimental to the rest if their life. What influence can the parent have in guiding some of these decisions if the 18 year old is wholly independent. I would not want my 18 year old to have a car as they can be pretty reckless. If they had bought it with their own money I have to accept this decision, even though they are in an age bracket most likely to crash!

I had a Saturday job from 16 and liked the money and so got extra shifts. I did it for more money for drink and clothes. My 'A' levels were a secondary thought. This was noticed at my 6th form college by the teachers and I managed to make up the work. My brother was very focused never got even a summer job during university and with no distractions did really well! I therefore don't think this encouragement of financial independence always has a happy ending!

My dh and I met at university. No tuition fees then, I got a covenant, a small grant and my parents paid the rest ( not much). My dh got a larger grant but his parents didn't do the claim in the final year (self employed) and so he got no grant that year.

We both worked at uni- about 25 hours a week but I had only 5 hours of lectures in my final year. One of our uni friends has just gone back this year- she has 25 hours now.

I bought a house in my 2nd year. £1,500 deposit, £24k mortgage. 3 bed. Rented it to friends. Today that would not be possible as house prices have rocketed.

I didn't have a car until I started work......my granny had an outside loo......her granny was in the potato famine....

What I am saying it that times change. I will pay so that my children don't leave uni with any debt. I believe it will be about 10k per child per year. I was lucky to at born at a time when education was free and houses were affordable.

I want to give my children that same start in life. Yes we will have to cut back but I have been saving since their birth (as my parents saved to send us to uni).

I think you need to get your dh to work out a financial plan for what he wants to do.

So if he plans for each child to pay for 3 years Uni @ £10k per year plus £10k house deposit plus £2k for car and driving lessons that would be £102k per child times 3 kids is £306k.

From this dp will plan to allocate £xk from your house sale and then £xk per year from income. Then he can see how realistic his plans are and what they mean for the 2 of you in terms of how much you need to save each year.

Then I think you need to do a financial plan based on how you want to carry on without giving your adult children financial help.

Clearly there needs to be a reconciliation of the 2 positions but I think this will be easier once you have worked out the impact of the decisions on your life.

FWIW I don't think there is a right or wrong approach to this question - but you do need to be able to agree or compromise between yourselves somehow.

In principle I agree with you. But if I was able to help them I would like to.

classydiva I don't think you can say, in a still very much class ridden England, that it is a fact that the richest kids end up the poorest on leaving university! They are often propped up by all sorts of financial privileges that many people can only dream of! There is a whole world of inherited wealth out there that will forever keep it in the family, giving these young people advantage over others that may have had this financial independence installed in them but as a result of their lack of privilege will rarely be able to compete. It is delluded to think it is a level playing field. If you look at good jobs in politics, law, finance these people are everywhere and that is why I will be helping my DC as much as possible!

goodmanners , I was too sharp with you, sorry.

LittleAmy that's mean spirited, but you do have a point, there's another parent there to share the load.
ClassyDiva a lot can be done with semi-regular injections of £800 for 3 years. Not all courses have that.

OMG, don'[t you people ever go to bed?!

expat sums it up pretty well - i know we are at risk financially as i earn little at the moment and my dh's job is at serious risk. Selling the house and buying smaller one elsewhere when he loses his job is a sensible option (I/we thought). But now DH is saying ' we should put £100k min into an account for the kids education etc). Leaving us £60k for a house. Any idea where we could get a house for that much? And fwiw I am 52 - so edging quite fast into very hard to employ/get a mortgage territory. We will compromise, I know, but this will be a hard battle for both of us each secure in the knowledge that what we think is 'correct'...

we work(ed) in the public sector and are being seriously screwed - my dh hasn't had a pay rise for 4 years, last year i didn't earn enough to pay tax (legit, i do self assessment). My dd doesn't go on school trips as we can't afford them but does have music lessons and extra French as she is gifted and we want the best for her. The kids have instruments and bikes and we have a camping holiday in France every summer. They are not deprived but we cannot save and are always overdrawn and i fear for the next few years.

But my own situation isn't totally the point - genuinely interested in what is the MN 'norm'

We will help if we can, but definitely not fund every bit of their lives. There are far too many with some kind of feeling of entitlement from their parents and it gets my goat. I would not have allowed my parents to bail me out every time I got myself into a situation I could get out of myself through working hard. You do what you can and guide where you can, but not to the point that they have everything handed to them on a plate.

over, there is no way, in your position, i'd sell my house and set aside £100K for the kids.

you cannot afford it without risking homelessness on your part, especially if you or your spouse lose your job or become incapacitated for any reason.

at your age, it is unlikely you will get a mortgage for more than 15 years, perhaps 20. but the interest rate will be higher and then, interest rates will almost assuredly rise as inflation is expected to rise.

i would arrange an appointment with a financial adviser because he needs to be made to see sense.

NOW.

your priority needs to be staying out of debt, establishing a cushy emergency fund in case your spouse loses his job and becoming mortgage-free if at all possible.

then if there is anything left over, help out the kids.

and yes, what is their mother contributing?

Being made redundant in your mid-50s can have very very serious effects.

I sympathise with your husband, really, it's hard to break out the parenting that you were modelled. He doesn't want to think of himself as a bad father, who would? Thinking on, I would be sensitive to him when you speak of this. (I know I called him daft etc earlier, oops)
But Expat talks sense. It's just not feasible in your situation. It's too much of a risk to take, he needs to think clearly about finances, and himself as a father too.
if you lose your home would the DC take you into their home that you have paid for?

for the dsc, dh's ex will contribute and she has her parent's fund to draw on (which I think but dont know will be her 50%). I do wonder if poor old dh is feeling mildly emasculated - he has been brought up in a comfortable lifestyle and does get a bit sad that he can't give us/the family what he had. But for me that is all ok, we do our best, we work hard and show our kids that. We also do stuff for others being very community minded and help out friends in various ways. We are not mean spirited or mean. I thought we were 'normal'.

I am trying very hard not to fall into a whinge 'poor little me' - but my old age is around the corner and i do not want an impoverished old age like my mum and dad had.

overthemill I think your husband is seriously barking. We all want to help our children through life, but what your dh intends to do is quite frankly ridiculous. You should be supporting them within your own financial means.

To me helping a child through university, means letting them live rent free at home in the holidays so they can work full-time and save money for the next term. It is sending them food parcels when they have pissed their grocery money up the wall not budgeted well. It is being at the end of the phone to support them emotionally. If you are financially able it would be subbing their rent, or contributing towards fees and books.

University isn't just a formal education, it is a life lesson, a first glimpse into the real world. A chance for a young adult to learn how to combine study, work, fun, money and relationships, All of which are normal aspects of life, that all grown ups have to find a balance for at some point. Op, by paying for everything, I personally think you your dh will be denying them a chance to 'grow up' and they may end up reliant on your help well into adulthood, which is not good for anyone.

I don't think it is remotely abnormal for parents to help out their children if they can afford it.

For me, that meant a car and a bit of help at uni from my parents, but no chance of a bean when I wanted to buy a house because they didn't have anything spare.

My brother's inlaws have bought him and his wife (their daughter) a house, a car, a few holidays and a time share. Very nice too!

OP - YANBU because you simply cannot afford what your husband wants to do. He is trying to keep up with The Joneses, or his parents, or his siblings, and he can't.

OP YANBU. You can't afford to fund your DCs as much as your DH wants.
We will help our DDs a little. Currently funding DD1s driving lessons and have set aside enough to do the same for DD2.
I expect DD1 to be at university in 2 years time. We will help with smaller things like food parcels, making sure she has all the books she needs, transport her to and from home for holidays and provide her essentials when she is at home. All of these I will expect to be able to do for DD2. Anything in addition to thus can wait until they have both finished their education and will depend on whether or not we have anything to spare. I wouldn't expect them to support us in our old age (we're older parents, so not that far away for us) so it's important that we keep enough to be able to support ourselves.

What Fatty said- ask him where the 306k is coming from. The money tree in the back garden?

To be honest, I had an almost identical upbringing to you Overthemill. I had Saturday and holiday jobs, nobody ever paid for me to learn to drive, or bought me a car, or gave me a house deposit. My grant was topped up a little but I still worked all weekend.

Call me old fashioned but I think kids have too much done for them these days and they will never appreciate stuff the way I appreciate stuff if its all on a plate and they have had no struggle.

My children will have their CTF money, lots of advice and guidance and that will be that. I would never downsize and work til 70 so they can have more than me.

A little struggling and hard work is good for the soul (God I sound like an old puritan!).

Overthmill- your DH had more priveleges than you and needs a reality check.

I stopped getting any financial help from my parents after college. (I did live in halls but it was very cheap). My dad sent me £10 a week spending money (food was covered in halls rent). My mum sent me around £20 a week in my second year after divorcing my dad... Guilt money.
Since I left college I have not been given a bean by my parents- even now I don't borrow from them or look to them for financial help of any sort. I borrowed a fiver off my dad a few weeks ago as I needed a cab home and it just felt weird!

Tbh i am wondering how much is about control and fullfiling the parents' dreams.

As expat said at 20 you have enormous energy, you can work all evening, then dance all night, then go to uni and be fine. But perhaps thats scary for some parents as they will have no control. And not a say in choices.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, unfortunately your DH is clearly deluded if he thinks he can afford to support all his children as he would like.

You need to find some way of bringing this home to him.

It makes me angry that he seems to be living in cloud cuckoo land and is threatening the security of your old age because of this.

Doesn't he understand that the whole point of equity is to eventually be able to pay off the mortgage?

How about drawing up a sort of shoppping list of what each member of the family will need over the next 20 years. Put your own retirement costs firmly on that list. Write down your likely joint income. Can everything be afforded? Maybe he will see that you need to start striking items off the list.

One way of supporting all your children might be to move somewhere close to several universities, so that they have the option of staying at home and commuting, therefore drastically reducing their costs. That way the money is not spent but at least stays as equity in the house. I know that this isn't an ideal university experience but unfortunately the way things are going then it may be necessary for more students to consider this option.

He is being very unreasonable in believing that you should forego a decent life to subsidise adult children who are able to fend for themselves.
Our DD gets a small bursary/grant and the rest is student loans and she works around 20 hours a week which funds her clothes/shoes habit.

We help our DD out to the tune of a couple of thousand a year, that's all we can afford - she gets cash for birthdays/xmas and we keep her car on the road (tax, insurance, mot etc.)
I can't understand why people think that a car is a luxury for a student though - DD wouldn't be able to get to her pt job without a car, it's on the other side of the city from where she house shares, I certainly wouldn't have her trying to catch a bus at midnight!

I think it's unfair that she will end up £30k in debt to become a desperately needed teacher, but it is her choice to do so - her workplace offered to put her on a fast track restaurant manager thing but that's not what she wants in life, she wants to be a Maths teacher, has done from the age of 12.

If we could afford to pay her fees and rent we would, but not at the expense of a lifestyle that we have worked hard for over 20 years to be able to enjoy.

If money is no issue then fine, pay for the lot!

But in your current situation where it isnt possible then no you YANBU. Instead of "we should buy him a car" it should be "we should help him get a job and open a savings account"

I, like you, have nothing I or me and DH didnt work and pay for and I expect that from my children too. How else will they learn the value of anything if they havent put the work in to get it?!

My mum has the view, which I agree with that I have to make my own way, but if I get stuck she'll help me if she can without putting herself in a bad position.

We are going to save up for DS but not tell him, and only give him the money if he needs it, if he doesn't need it then we will spend it on ourselves.