to think that my dcs should pay for their own cars, houses etc?

[overthemill]

this is really bugging me. I am from a fairly normal working class not at all well off probably poorish background. My parents loved me but had nothing so I never got anything from them once I left home. When I was at home doing summer jobs (as a student) my mum would ask for £10 a week (in the 70s) towards my 'keep'. I never got pocket money. If I wanted something I had to work for it (I got my first p/t job at 13 and worked all through school and college). My mum used to make up my grant (about £30 a term was what they had to pay) out of the money I gave her in the summer. My last year at college my dad refused to fill in the application forms so I didn't get a grant that year at all and I had to work 2 days a week to pay rent, eat etc. Incidentally I came out of college with a few hundred pounds in savings. Two days after my finals I got a job and have worked ever since.

I have no beef about this at all - I think it was 'normal' for my family and most of my peers, there were a few people I knew whose parents had more money but really very few.

I am now married to a lovely dh (not our first marriages) and we have 3 kids between us. I came along when his were 2 & 4 and ours was born about a year later.
First is due to go to Uni in 2011 ad it has suddenly become apparent to me that dh is expecting to fund in full her education - ie at least £10k a year for the 4 year degree, then do the same for the next one and then the next. I have always kind of known this but hadn't ever realised he was planning to wholly find it, not just 'top it up'.

And then, last weekend we had a real argument about the kids cars - dsd has juststarted driving lessons and will want a car. He blithely said, 'we'll have to buy her one' and still later 'we need to look into how we can help them all out with deposits when they want to buy a house'.

Now I am totally and utterly gobsmacked by this. He does come from a different background from me. Privately educated, Oxford Uni and he had help from his very comfortably off parents at various stages. He thinks this is normal. I think it is totally and utterly abnormal.

You need to know that we do not have much money at all - he doesn't earn loads and I lost my job last year and have struggled to find alternatives, he will probably get made redundant next year - and his payout will not be huge. We are always overdrawn and live paycheck to paycheck despite our best endeavours.

AIBU - please tell me, what do you think - are you all planning to impoverish yourselves to give your dc's money?

I don't think you're being unreasonable in not wanting to fund "everything", however I do think that you're being unreasonable to think that "working 2 days a week" will fund 10k a year at uni. Where do you think the children will work for 100 quid a day take home?

classydiva - well done to your son for managing to fund himself.
However it isn't true to say that the students who have financial support from their families are the ones who end up in the most debt. I left Uni without a penny of debt, as did my brother and we weren't alone among our friends. Obviously there are exceptions, but to say 'Fact' like that about anecdotal evidence from one person is ridiculous.
I expect he does know some people who have got themselves into a mess, but equally he is probably anxious that you don't feel guilty about not having been able to help him. Which you shouldn't - if you can't afford it then you can't afford it.

Alpine - exactly. How many people post on here who talk about a family income of £12/15/20k before tax credits? Where are all these well paid part-time jobs that students are supposed to get during term time to pay the bills?

im shocked at how many people have said they will only help out with uni so long as it isnt a wishy washy degree, talk about power trip. you can only have x if i think its worth it. thats taking all responcibility away from your child, their own choices are not worthy enough. thats a bit worrying.

i will help my children out if i can but i wouldnt fund them completly unless i was a millionnaire.

it would also depend in the circs, if they had children while at uni i would help more. i wouldnt buy them a car or a house but i might pay their first rental deposit or half of their first car after they had finished uni

I haven't read all the posts so sorry if repeating what anyone else has said.

My parents funded me, through University (grant equivalent in addition to my student loans) and I am eternally grateful to them for that. I am fortunate now to earn 5 times what my Dad ever did and have been self-funding since graduation. The University I went to had a rule against working in term-time anyway so that wouldn't have been an option, have you checked this out at their potential Universities?

What sort of courses do your DC want to do? Are they doing well at school? I don't think it would be unreasonable to make funding conditional upon good results and a sensible degree. As for the car, IME the normal thing when kids are living at home is to insure them on the parents' car and let them use it as and when you think reasonable. Definitely not necessary while at University, I didn't know a single fellow student who had one. Very important to learn to drive asap though.

MrsTittleMouse my mum did pay some of my gran's bills and bought her new 'white' goods when needed as she had more money than my gran and would not let her suffer. She is a retired teacher so wasn't extremely well off but relative to my grandmother was well off so as she was immediate family and loved her very much and did not want her to suffer these hardships she did these thing for her! She was not doing this in return for help she received at university because her parents could not afford to help her at university! She was doing this because some families will always help each other out, young and old. To me this is an issue of very strong family loyalty - you do what you can to help!

I really don't know why you would make it harder than it has to be if you have the money, it is not going to become outstanding individuals just because you have made them endure certain hardships, indeed it could be their downfall if they are reckess and irresponsible young people. I can't get my head round that idea that a parent (esp.a wealthy one) would say, 'you're on your own now your 18.' If an 18 year old can't get a Job at university they may make all sorts of irresponsible decisions like doing some minor drug dealing to get by, getting credit cards, student loans and spend them on drink, clothes, anything other than utility bills and books because they are 18 and do not have a clue! Or giving up university altogether because they do not have the life experience to sort a financial mess out. Frankly, if I had money and could have helped I would feel a failure as a parent. These things happen when parents make these misguided decisions. So don't kid yourself if you think cutting the apron strings is going to produce a self sufficient, financially savvy individual just because they have turned 18!

Oh, I certainly wouldn't want to make it hard for my children, and I really hope that we have the money by the time that they are Uni age that we can take some of the financial stress away from them.

But the OP has stated that she has been made redundant, her DH will likely get made redundant next year, and that they already live paycheque to paycheque, despite their best efforts. Sounds to me that they really do need that money themselves.

Buying each child a car, and a house and a Uni education would be nuts in those circumstances. I would prioritise the education if it was me (which it isn't!).

And by the time that the OP and her DH are elderly and poverty striken, what's to say that their children won't have big mortgages and Uni-age children themselves and be unable to help, even if they wanted to?

This is a quote from the Telegraph (but my emphasis) -
Of course, many pay what they can from their regular income, which means they have far less disposable income each month. Financial advisers say that while parents may have to accept having fewer or cheaper holidays and not upgrading the car, those with children at university should take care not to go into debt themselves or neglect pension planning. Students will be able to borrow at far cheaper rates than parents, so it doesn't make sense to borrow yourself, just to keep the children out of the red.

Goldenbear, "they may make all sorts of irresponsible decisions like doing some minor drug dealing to get by, getting credit cards, student loans and spend them on drink, clothes, anything other than utility bills and books because they are 18 and do not have a clue!"

What you say is true, but could also apply whether you give them money or not. i.e you could pay their rent but they could still go and run up massive credit card debts and end up with clothes, shoes and no books. I think that if things come to children too easily in life, they think the world is like that too and are in for a rude awakening!

I'll admit that I intend to do all the things your DH would like to do.

I had to scrimp and struggle all my young life and I'd like to ease my own children's way.

Education, I see as my responsibility to fund.
As for a house, I don't see it as my responsibility, but it will be so much harder for our children than it was for us, that I'd like to get them started.

And a car. Well, yes, it's a luxury. But it will ease my life too if they can get about by themselves ( we live in the sticks, which isn't the DC's fault)

However, If I couldn't actually afford any of this, I wouldn't feel guilty.
You can only do what you can do in life.
Your DH needs to learn this.

Nestafiesta. DD2 would like to work as sge is spending all her student laon at the moment on bills and other stuff for uni and I know she could do with a bit more. She has learnt to budget properly while she#s been at uni and doesn't just go out and spend money like watger any more. She does have an overdraft she can use but she doesn't want to go into it if she can help it.
If she was in real trouble with money and had been sprnding it properly then we would lend her some until she got thongs sorted out.

how if you can't feed yourself will you give away 10k for uni fees etc?

bonkers

mumeee, that's fantastic that your DD has learnt to budget already and is wary of overdrafts. A lot of people her age could do well to follow that example. I hope my 2 DSs will know about budgeting and overdrafts like that- in fact I will make sure they do!

Aside from your DD, I just find a lot of teenagers and early 20somethings know the price of everything and the value of nothing (to quote Mr Wilde).

Yes but NestaFiesta, if you abandon them at 18 you have no right to interfere and advise them how to best use their money as it is 100% their decision if it is indeed all their money. Least if you are contributing you can justifiably say that has to go on rent for instance. You know they at least have a roof over their heads. Having somewhere to live whilst you study is a necessity which if they didn't prioritise with their income could lead to them having to leave university.

Of course they can get credit cards waste the money on clothes but this won't mean that they have to leave university.

I don't think you should satisfy every wish but I don't believe that showing them that families help each other out is a deception that leads them to believe non family owe them something and therefore they will have a 'rude awakening'!

Oh and I am 33 and just don't believe me and my friends who incidentally where from all walks of life were not seduced by fun and the occasional extravagance because we were only young and that it es life is about. I don't think it's the 'youth of today'. Life is not and should not IMO be about spreadsheets at that age - dull, dull, dull!

I don't think helpiing out your children leads them into a life of irresponsibility either.

I have friends from very privileged backgrounds who were given cars and other luxuries. They still worked very hard and have become independent and useful members of society.

I'm not more hardworking because I 'suffered', I don't think.

IMO it isn't helpful to your offspring if you give them financial help if it then means you will need their financial support in your retirement.
Just when they've paid any uni debts (assuming you can't afford to pay 100% for them) and when their earnings make the mortage repayments more affordable (assuming their salaries increase as they progress up a career ladder), such that they can think of having kids of their own.....they then need to help you out financially.
Better in most cases that they make their own way, "cut their cloth" according to a realistic budget. At 18 few many still need to learn financial skills like budgeting after all.

I didn't mean that working a couple of evening s or days while at Uni would ever be able to totally fund Uni, but meant that I see nothing wrong in students doing a bit of work if they are able to so they can have some cash. I would be less than happy if we were doing cleaning and babysitting jobs over and above our normal work (like now) in order to fund Uni and they were doing nothing.

We have 3 kids starting we will have 1 2011 - 2015 (4 years @ £3k fees), 1 starting 2014 -2018 (4 years @ £9k fees) and 1 starting 2016 - 2021 (if she is a Vet)(5 years @£9k)£90k in fees alone for 3 kids without any postgrad training at all (eg teaching qualifications). Plus accommodation plus living costs (books? they'll have to use the library!) For 3 years we will have 2 kids at Uni at the same time.

I am certain that our kids will want to go to University - they are able and bright and getting good grades now. I want them to go but how on earth can we afford to fund them?

Goldenbear, I don't think, or at least, I hope, that my 2 DSs would understand that accommodation is always paid first. That doesn't mean I have to pay it for them just to be sure its paid. Even when I went to uni at 18 with no experience of handling finance, it was instinctive to me that accommodation was paid first, then everything else.

overthemill- just reading the fees you list makes me feel tired. Can't DH's comfortably off parents help? You shouldn't bankrupt yourself so all the kids can follow their dreams. Could they not consider a working gap year before uni? You could provide free/cheap acommodation to help them save. Otherwise,its time to look for outside help like family etc. You're looking at over 300k otherwise if DH wants to fulfil all his wishes. You'll kill yourself with all the extra work you'll have to do. You deserve quality of life too.

You can't afford to fund them, overmill. He made choices that made that so. Actions have consequences. If he loses his job, he won't be able to fully fund them, anyway, but does he really want to risk repossession and homelessness into the bargain?

What he proses is not acceptable because of the risk to you as people are are only 15 years from retirement age and his job is at risk.

So you need to just say that very sentence. 'This is unacceptable because of the risk to us as we're only 15 years from retirement (he might even be older than you and closer to it!) and your risk of redundancy.'

And go from there.

gulp, I think that is what I will have to do expat. Oh how I wish his parents could help out - his dad remarried and has since died leaving all to his wife and his mum is frail elderly and about to go into care. Her money will go into that (as, I fully expect, will ours, poor kids won't see a penny of it!) And my dad is on state benefits and my mum is dead...prostitution, anyone?

i did start to think about doing what Susan, in Desperate Housewives, does to earn some dosh. If only I had her body and wasn't such a staunch feminist!

Goldenbear I do think I am as driven and successful as I am because nothing has come to me easily. I also have a confidence from knowing that I have succeeded where many would fail. My dd has so much confidence than I ever had and advantages I never had so I am quite certain she will manage on her own.

I refuse to pander to inflated house prices by giving my children a house deposit. I am sure if we stopped fueling prices in this way more people would be able to buy.

"Cambridge does (ban paid work during term time). Probably because its terms are short and intense. No idea what they do if you go ahead and work."

You get "deaned". Actually, I think one of the reasons paid work is banned is because the student population is hugely disproportionate to what is quite a small "town" population and students will work for v low wages. At least this was the case before min wage legislation came in. Is also the reason students arent allowed cars unless they have college parking.

I actually didnt mind too much- I mean, terms are only 24 weeks a year (30 if you stay up a week either side), so you've still got 22-28 weeks to make some cash. It meant that my holidays were pretty crappy though

When I was at Oxford many moons ago I was forbidden from working. I just sold my soul in the holidays and did the odd secret job.

ok, so IANBU. Now to talk to dh...