to be fusked off with people's perception of children in care?

[LoopyLoops]

Not a thread about a thread, but inspired by one, whereby it was suggested that foster children are a danger to others.

Children in care are vulnerable and by default disadvantaged in many ways. 35% of the population goes to uni, whereas only 3% (1% until recently) of care leavers do.

Attitudes towards fostered children range from sympathetic to contemptuous.

I'll give you an example. Drinking with a neighbour recently, talking about childhood. He stated "but I don't believe you LoopyLoops, you can't have been in care, you own a nice house and are married..." Now, he wasn't saying this in a "wow! aren't you great" way, but in a genuine "I don't believe you, you're making it up" way. So, I gather the assumption is that care leavers will never achieve, won't own their own homes and won't have happy family lives as adults.

AIBU that this pisses me off?

YANBU at all. FWIW my team has a MUCH better uni support package than has been described, which is why we have 5% university attendance rather than the national average which is 1%

A young woman I work with was basically hounded out of her residential home by neighbours. I know she had occasional meltdowns and was a bit shouty but was just a young teenager with a horrible past. Motherfuckers. That agency had to sell the house!

We don't call young people LAC (not to their faces) we call them young people. My young people constantly amaze and astound me and even when the odd few are aggressive or violent i understand where it comes from :( I love my job I do.

That's interesting Eric, could you tell me which county by any chance please?

You would think training would help, but I suppose until you are actually doing it and it's 2am and you have a major situation on your hands, maybe you think you can deal with it? (recalling a phone call we received one weekend from a new carer)

Also, dividing up a major local authority so most of it's experienced foster carers are now not available to you when you have young people to place doesn't help either.

Its a difficult balance isnt it?

I know a few women who spoke about their deep desire to foster. I am always up for a chat about this subject so would happily natter away. Very quickly realised that these women had NO clue whatsoever.

One stipulated that she only really wanted to foster little Jewish girls from nice homes and was confident she would be very much in demand

The others were not quite as bad but it was very hard not to over do the reality thing. It wasnt my place to set them straight but I was amazed at how little they knew considering they all expressed a life long wish to be foster carers.

I may well have been guilty of overstating the case on occasion but only out of a desire to get across what children in care have to cope with. Not because I think they are all nutjobs.

I find it frustrating that schools often wont take the needs of fostered and adopted children seriously and discount it altogether.

It isn't fair to suggest that people who have fertility problmes should be looking at adoption (fostering is in no way simlar and shouldn't be compared) before IVF or other fertility treatment unless all of you who had children considered adoption first becasue there's really little difference in teh long rin having your child conceived in a petrie dish or in your uterus. There is a huge differnce adopting, both for you and your child, statistically there are more problems experienced by children who were adopted reagrdless of the age they were adopted and you are signing up for a lifeitme of knowing that your child is going to have the learn to deak with all the issues that adoption brings. Not everyone is up for that and frankly I can quite understand.

Additionally it is way way way easier to have fertility treatment than adopt in my experience (though) I accept others may have had different experiences.

"you don't know what you will get" - easy to poke fun at but it was the thing I was most terrified of waiting in the office for DS to be brought to me. Terrified I tell you, truly. It seems laughable now but when you adopt you don;t have the rush of Oxytocin to make you fall in love to the point of obsession with your baby that most women have - you go in with a cold hard clear head and people can try all they like to convince me thats its just the same as having a baby. But it isn't, it just isn't and you have to have a bit of a screw lose to be so determined to adopt I have decided.

Besides which the number of children in care on teh adoption register is tiny - only a couple of thousand I think.

But in answer to the OP - people will always make ignorant comments about things they don't understand and it will unfortunately ever be thus. Of course you are not being unreasonable!

MrsDV - even DS's "third world" orphanage would have turned their noses up at some second hand (unhygenic) soft toys and in my experience of 2yrolds in orphanages they have no idea what to do with soft toys anyeay. The staff use the new ones bought for them as decorations in the rooms rather than toys.

PS just in case my post sounds depressing - I love DS to distractio and though I didn;t know what I was getting, he is I am convinced more marvellous than any child I could have produced biologically.

Phipps

I really hope you can find someone/somewhere safe to talk tonight.

I wish I could help. I would listen and not judge but I havnt shared your experiences so probably wouldnt be much use to you.

Sorry you are feeling bad about this.

I have had 4 birth children and adopted one child.

I can confirm it is VERY different.

When I had my birth children for example I had PR from the moment they were born. It took two bloody years with DS2. Imagine, having a child for two years, watching him being screwed over by the system and having no legal status in his life at all.

Horrible.

I just feel so cross that people make decisions about other people's lives without any idea of the consequences.

I think this is a bad idea for me atm. I feel like crap, are unbelievably tired, nearly cried within a few minutes of picking up the kids because they were being obnoxious, have a huge thing to deal with with no control and just want a cuddle and some chocolate.

CLA - Children Looked After.

I am a social worker in a Children in Care team and the young people are definitely the best part of my job, even though sometimes (like all kids) they are hard work.

All the young people have something good about them, even if it's hidden under some behaviour or attitude, but most are 'normal', cheerful, pleasant people and children, and I make sure I tell people this whenever I talk about my job! I agree people have a bad image about children who are looked after, and we aren't much good at changing this.

its the wannabe adopters who so much want to adopt because they have such a lovely family already and so much want to share their love (and by inference their superior parenting skills) with some poor unfortunate baby (preferably under 6 months) who wind me up (can you tell?!)

But they don't generally get any further than mouthing off.

Sure, I don't mind, it's Brighton and Hove. We pretty much paid everything a few years ago, and careleavers didn't have to pay fees as they were means tested as having zero funds. We paid rent in halls and rent elsewhere for the holidays, which might be a supported lodgings rate if they returned to ex foster carers, then we paid rent 52 weeks a year until they graduated. We pay a living allowance of £50pw except during summer holidays, which they keep even if they get a job. They have to pay their own bills but we pay travel costs and course costs (books etc). What else...we used to buy them a laptop but they all have laptops these days, and we pay fare to get there and back and a trip home per term. I think now they have to take student loans to pay their fees but it's considered that their increased earning potential will kick in later and make that equitable. They can also access their setting up allowance for furniture etc. They get their PA and support package until 24 or when they graduate, whichever comes first.

Sparkle "All the young people have something good about them" - that was my mantra before I was matched - that it is exceptional you cannot find something appealing about virtually every child. As it happens DS is very appealing in very many ways - I still felt like his babysitter for about 6 months!

Phipps I have just bought a very tiny but very expensive box of chocolates at the school shopping fair if you're anywhere local..?

phipps early night? Sometimes its just better to get a day over by going to bed. Its what I do when things feel too much.

Hope you feel better and that huge thing is dealt with soon.

Eric - do you know if there is some kind of mentor programme for LAC or ClA's or whatever at university - its something I'd be interested in.

Kewcucumber I think sometimes the issues some adoptive children have about discovering their origins, curiosity about their biological family, etc. is overstated though.

I was adopted at a few months old and actually it's never been much of an issue for me. I found out by accident at 15, which you might think would be the worst time with all that teenage angst, especially as my relationship with my mother was at crisis point.

However, I rarely think about it now, even when pregnant with DD. It's like it happened to someone else. I have no real desire to make contact with my birth family. As far as I'm concerned, my real family are the ones who brought me up.

I think it depends on a combination of how old you were when you were adopted, when you found out (I would say as a young adult, my identity was 90% established when I found out at 15)and other family issues.

Yes Kew - there is a mentor programme that matches students with younger teens in care who might get on the uni track, but I don't know about mentoring careleavers who are at uni. It's a good idea. Brighton and sussex unis have a very good liaison with us and are very supportive of careleavers who go to uni there. Maybe call them and ask?

Beveridge - of course not everyone who was adopted has issues but in my highly unscientific personal experience you are talking about a good third or more of people who do have some kind of problem. And I'm not just talking about desire to find birth family or identity but also dyslexia, learning difficulties, depression, adhd, attachment disorder, sensory processing disorder, auditory processing disorders etc which are all significantly higher in adopted children - of much of which can be traced to ealry life pre-adoption.

Of course all issues are minimised if you can move to a permanent family very young but thats much less common these days than it would have been when you were adopted.

Phipps I hope you are OK. Cup of tea, find some chocolates, then an early night. I hope we'll "see" you again here tomorrow.

Kewcumber I take your point about IVF, although I do still disagree. I don't really want to get into a rant about IVF on here, it's really not the place, but I certainly did consider adopting before having my own children, and am still likely to try in the future. Personally, I have never felt any primeval desire to continue my family's genes (not that they are that great anyway), so I guess I find it difficult to understand that 'need' in others.
Regarding the mentoring, it is something I have looked into and am hoping to get some answers soon, depends where in the country you are, but I'll PM you if/when I find out.

Eric thanks for that. Would you mind if I contact you in the future about this? I have been looking for a good LA to use as an example for my research, to compare with others that need to improve.

Go for it!

Thank you. If you could PM me your contact details, I'd be very grateful. I'm not starting the PhD until October but need to figure out my research proposal first. I am probably going to be looking at 6th formers in care across a couple of counties that offer different levels of support, and comparing the outcomes.

Also, if you have any ideas (especially as to how to attract/keep 'LAC' volunteers) I'd be really grateful. :)

I am a SW and have worked for the an LA in a residential home for 16 yrs. 16 yrs because I love what I do and feel privileged to know the young people I work with over the years (11-18 yr olds)

I get very frustrated that true LAC/CIC kids (although I LOVE the CLA term and will be suggesting that!) are being mixed with the remanded kids and the kids who seem to come to us because quite frankly they have had poor parenting. Although all in both these cases these children and families do need help I dont think being remanded to LA care or being (voluntarily) taken into care is the answer ...except of course if there is CP concerns. I think to an extent this is where the 'bad/naughty' kid label comes from coupled with societies general view that all kids carry knives and want to 'happy slap' you.

On a positive note the school in my area have made massive steps over the last few years to engage with and motivate our young people - to listen to them and to think out side of the box when it comes to a delivery of service....and this has had an significant impact on the outcomes and more importantly the self belief for our kids.

I am in touch with a lot of our care leavers - up to about 28 yr olds.. some haven't done so well ...but a vast majority are doing just fine!

Hope your okay Phipps.

Have delved into this thread as I am tentatively making enquiries into becoming a foster carer.

Biologically, my family is complete and I have no desire to have any more children but I feel we could offer a loving stable environment to a child who needs it.

On looking at LA website a while ago, would have thought we fitted the bill perfectly - have a spare room, cash although tight is managable, no criminal convictions and we both have valid CRB's, have made sure dog has all his vaccinations and have even recently bought a larger car (just in case ) but on closer inspection it seems we cant because our bedroom isnt on the same floor as the childrens!

It also states that they want us to have a close support unit. What exactly do they mean? My family live miles away but we have made quite a few close friends in our area but it seems a bit intrusive to ask them if they would mind being interviewed.

Some of the rules just seem to be a pointless barrier and to be honest I'm a bit intimidated by the whole process.

LoopyLoops - YANBU and I am so happy everything has worked out for you. It seems so very rare that positive outcomes about care experiences are shared.

I hope you don't feel I am intruding on this thread (it feels quite personal) but I just wanted to say that I looked at Kewcumber's profile and I think the photo of your son in his school uniform is one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen.

Hi YADNBU
I was in care from the age of 5, was originally going to be adopted with my DSIS, but we were considered too old. we were separated from our DB who was fostered separately in another county.
i spent time in children's home and then a couple of different families.

throughout school I was bullied for being fostered and not having any parents , and people were often reluctant to remain friends once they discovered my 'secret'

I was fortunate to be placed in long term care from the age of 8 or 9 and stayed with the same family til I was 21 and had graduated university.

I had a great SW (didn't think so at the time) who really pushed for me to get financial help to enable me to go to uni - my fees for halls and then subsequently my rent while at uni was paid for. I also got some help buying books etc.

I was the first person in my borough (AFAIK) to go to uni, and my graduation picture hangs in the SS office.

People are often surprised to learn that I was fostered, and then give me sympathy. I don't need sympathy - I am 28, pg with my first child, have a wonderful DP, had a decent job and thankfully feel pretty happy.

Yes, I had a crappy start to my life, bad things happened, but much much worse happens to others and I am entirely grateful for all the opportunities I was given.

I wish more people would be open to adopting older children, so many children (like me and my siblings) are stuck in the care system because they aren't tiny babies or toddlers, and it's a real shame

apologies feel I may have gone off on a tangent - sorry I blame my hormonal baby brain

sb6699 - Not sure if rules have changed?? But certainly in my last placement my bedroom was downstairs, foster parents upstairs. And the one before that, come to think of it. I would make enquiries if you are serious, before getting bogged down with details, I'm sure it's not that important.

Lainey - thanks for your story, It seems that there are a few of us about! Totally agree re adopting older children. Also, if the adoption process was quicker, this would be avoided to an extent. Congratulations on your pregnancy (I am pregnant too!) and hope the birth all goes swimmingly. :)