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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Libyan "stolen" children

225 replies

Arthur62 · 06/11/2010 09:45

There seems to be a lot of hype concerning children who are living with their fathers' in Libya. Mothers' are claiming that these children are stolen but surely these children are just simply living with one of their parents. It happens all the time in England when the mother steals the children from the father.

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scallopsrgreat · 06/11/2010 13:20

Agree with ISNT - the court in this country recongnises the contribution of the primary carer up to that point in custody cases.

giveitago · 06/11/2010 13:51

Arthur - those children have been stolen. They have had their mothers' love and care removed by their fathers illegally.

You seem to think that children are objects and fathers' needs come before that of the child.

You can have a residence order in place and children can still be stolen and taken to a country that that doesn't recognise the Hague Convention. It's not a question of smuggling them out of the country ahead of a court hearing.

loftylorrie · 06/11/2010 13:52

I'm amazed this is still going - is it not obvious that from "his" posts on here and on various other threads that Arthur is either a very misguided wo/man with a deep-seated grudge against mothers, or deliberately trying to wind people up?

"Arthur", sorry to be the one to point this out but purposely acting in a way that you KNOW is inflammatory doesn't make you big or clever, it just makes you a bad troll. And if you're not doing it on purpose, then I worry for your mental health. Please go and see your doctor. Sad

LittleMissHissingFirecracker · 06/11/2010 15:09

My son is mine. His sperm donor dad comes from a country that borders Libya.

He has done nothing to raise him, he says it's not his job to, and if it were meant to be, he'd have tits.

He himself has said though that the kind of men that take the children often do so to punish the mother, or because of religious fanaticism. Literally, the men who do this are bonkers and have lost it. They have no business being near children in the first place.

So Arthur trot on off to Libya and go get some help.. Does Libya have a decent mental health system? Hmm

Trilobiteontoast · 06/11/2010 15:26

You are being unreasonable to put your own personal grudge towards mothers before the wellbeing of children. Hardly surprising that UK courts would rule the mother to remain the primary carer if you were like that in court, is it? When will 'fathers rights' whiners stop thinking of themselves and start thinking about childrens' rights? Oh, and maybe if you didn't leave/abuse/neglect your wife/partner, this kind of issue wouldn't even come up as you could both live with the child as is ideal.

YouHaveNothingButAHunch · 06/11/2010 16:33

Sorry have been off interacting with the dcs.

Primary carer doesn't mean the person who is unemployed. In my situation both h and I work full time. I would be the person to take time off work for the dcs were they ill, but other than that the majority of stuff is split fifty fifty. Were we to split up I would hope for a joint custody arrangement with the dcs resident at both houses. Since they are fully cared for by both of us.

In a situation where even when home one parent is not involved in the child rearing they would not be considered the primary carer.

Your comment on childcarers getting residency is factetious and doesn't really warrant a response, since no child carer is claiming parental responsibility for your child,

Being unemployed, and staying home with pre-school children as a joint decision are two very different things.

I still don't quiite understand your point, other than that you clearly believe parents should have equal rights regardless of gender. Something that I think most people support. I certainly do.

However you will not garner support for your argument by arguing that something inherently and obviously unfair is right, on the basis that you perceive something else to be unfair.

It's never a simple thing. People are individuals and during a split people can behave irrationally. But again the most important thing must always be the welfare of the children. And in most instances keeping things as close to normal for them is the ideal. If the father is the primary carer and deals with schools, illness, all the little things more than the mother, then he should remain the primary carer.

tethersend · 06/11/2010 17:45

Arthur's started another thread.

It's almost as if he doesn't want to debate the issue any further.

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 06/11/2010 17:46

Ah yes, his views on parents who have lost a child. He is a classy and not at all trollish poster.

Were we too reasonable here?

BeerTricksPotter · 06/11/2010 17:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tethersend · 06/11/2010 17:49

I think reasoned debate may have won the day, YouKnow.

It's like his kryptonite Grin

Arthur62 · 06/11/2010 17:54

Oh dear. Am I not allowed to post another topic which is relevant and in the news recently?

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FlameGrilledMama · 06/11/2010 17:55

FFS Shiting pissing hell

Arthur62 · 06/11/2010 17:57

Shall we all just post about whether men wipe their arses standing up or sitting down then?

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BeerTricksPotter · 06/11/2010 17:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 06/11/2010 17:59

I would buy that little book.

Tether, surely not? :o

It just seems such a non-argument; should parents co-parent? Well, yes... Of course they should.

Should the mccanns be grateful for the help they've received as well as ask for more help to find their daughter? Well.... Yes. Wouldn't you?

Do bears excrete in heavily tree-infested areas? Let me think...

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 06/11/2010 18:00

But Arthur, who would that thread, or these threads, benefit? Debate is to expand one's mind. I don't feel that these do anything but hurl judgement about in a rather random fashion.

tethersend · 06/11/2010 18:01

Hooray! You're back- I thought you'd forgotten all about us Smile

So. Where were we?... Oh yes. YouKnowNothing had just made some good points. What do you reckon?

Arthur62 · 06/11/2010 18:08

Look, if all you want to debate about is whether little Jonny should wear ear plugs at a fireworks display, then be my guest to respond to those threads. It is not for you or anyone else to determine whether another's post is valid or not. There are plenty of other areas for you to criticise if you want... :)

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tethersend · 06/11/2010 18:10

I thought we were talking about Libyan fathers taking children back to their home country illegally Confused

But, err... ok, we can talk about 'little Jonny' if you like?

FlameGrilledMama · 06/11/2010 18:11

Arthur of you wanted unanimus agreement why did you post in AIBU did you not read the disclaimer above?

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 06/11/2010 18:13

But your manner is designed to incite the utmost outrage, is it not? Coming on to a website primarily aimed at mothers and stating that you believe a man who runs away with the children is doing nothing wrong, is rather... Aggressive.

Had you posted "aibu to think men and women should have equal parental rights?" then I'm sure you would have had a response too, but without the funny, funny bating.

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 06/11/2010 18:18

Damnit, "baiting"

tethersend · 06/11/2010 18:18

Perhaps he was trying to elevate our consciousness?

Anyway, who wants to talk about shoes?

Or lunchboxes?

Or feminism? Or politics? Shit, no sorry... err... recipes?

Maybe we should just stick to Libyan fathers... don't run before you can walk, eh? Wink

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 06/11/2010 18:19

:o tether. I like blinking I do.

Arthur62 · 06/11/2010 18:20

I am not familiar with your "aibu's" or any other abbreviations. Sorry.

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